Home » Audio » Speaker » Even more on slam - and imaging!
Even more on slam - and imaging! [message #19257] Mon, 21 May 2007 18:28 Go to next message
SteveBrown is currently offline  SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Fun evening. I just got back from our 12-year-old's band concert. This was in a school auditorium, concrete everywhere, except for the hardwood floors. In the final two songs they combined the 5th and 6th grade for a total of 166 instruments! Yes, now you'd expect some slam (see previous thread for definition). But no, not really. Sure you could feel the bass drums and the kettle drum but not chest thumping, more like bleacher ratteling. So maybe I'm in a quest for an artifcat that isn't all that often really present. I also noticed when I closed my eyes that I could not distinquish imaging very much at all. Also interesting. Now, I could when the tubas on the right were blowing bass notes, but not so much for any other instrument. I will say, however, that I'd agree with those who suggest imaging is important in the reproduction of music since we don't have the normal visual cues. Anyway, just thought I'd do some follow up rambling. Oh, and I found myself sitting there really wishing I had two things... 1) my Radio Shack SPL meter, how loud do 166 instruments get? and 2) a cushion.
Regards,
Steve

Re: Even more on slam - and imaging! [message #19264 is a reply to message #19257] Tue, 22 May 2007 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob Brines is currently offline  Bob Brines
Messages: 186
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
Master
Ah, yes. Imaging in real life.

Of course, a high school auditorium or worse a gymnasium is about as bad a venue as you can get. The reflections and reverberations are substantially stronger than the direct sound, so imaging is next to impossible. Same thing to a lesser degree in a good concert hall. In those expensive "orchestra" seats, most of the direct sound goes over your head and all you hear is reflections. The best seats in the house are usually the first row of the balcony, where you do get direct sound. But still, the best you get for imaging is violins on the left, 'cellos/basses on the right and everything else in the middle. You will not be able to pick where the oboe or bassoon is. Then there are those orchestras that put the second violins on the right and move the 'cellos to the center. Now there is NO imaging.

Alas, imaging is engineered into recordings. A good 2-mic recording does wonders for the presentation of a performance and I prefer them when available, which is not often. Audiophiles demand pin-point imaging which is just not there in a live performance. So the engineer takes a multi-mic multi-track recording and creates imaging. Presto, an audiophile recording.

Slam is missing in your high school concert for the same reasons. Slam is not in the bass, it is in the mid-bass, low treble. The slam is getting smeared by all of the reflections and all you get is boooooooooom.

Bob




Re: Even more on slam - and imaging! [message #19265 is a reply to message #19264] Tue, 22 May 2007 07:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SteveBrown is currently offline  SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Yep, and there was a lot of boom!

Re: Even more on slam - and imaging! [message #19268 is a reply to message #19264] Mon, 28 May 2007 07:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
randle is currently offline  randle
Messages: 179
Registered: May 2009
Master
I agree, I have never been to ao gym where the set up for a band was great. It might have looked like it was goign to be major but it never sounded major at all.

Re: Even more on slam - and imaging! [message #19270 is a reply to message #19264] Thu, 31 May 2007 22:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Forty2wo is currently offline  Forty2wo
Messages: 163
Registered: May 2009
Master
I just happen to have front row center balcony seats for the Philadelphia Orchestra.

I have to say every thing you say is true. Even in, what I think are the best seats in the house you do not get the pinpoint imaging that you get on a record. Maybe if you got to stand were the conductor does, Man that must be cool…

What you do get is a very real sense of a lot of folks playing really together just out there…

Different conductors move sections around to suit themselves. It does not make as much of a impact as to image as you would think. One Guy ( I like music I don’t know who’s who) put the basses to the left and split and mixed the rest of the strings, to both front, left and right. That was pretty cool. There was defiant head turning there but if you heard it on a record, it would just be confusing. Looked kind of hard to conduct as well.

What is not missing is slam.

When the better part of 100 guys that know there stuff really get going. that’s slam. When the guy in the back hits the really big drum or the organist steps on the low pedal not only do you feel it in your chest, it can take your breath away…John


Re: Even more on slam - and imaging! [message #19272 is a reply to message #19265] Wed, 06 June 2007 11:14 Go to previous message
randle is currently offline  randle
Messages: 179
Registered: May 2009
Master
Usually after a segment of that you end up leaving with a headache of some kind lol.

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