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Audio-philes are funny people [message #1715]

Mon, 16 May 2005 14:43

BillEpstein
Messages: 886
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

Doing some heavy research into opinions on the Welborne DRD300, AudioNote Kit 1 and Bottleneck Paraglow. Narrowed down to those 3 based mainly on resale value. I really want to build from scratch but I'm too fickle to hang on and too poor to take another beating.

Zillions of posts.
At least 1/3 and may be more replies to "which sounds better" or "have you heard the 2",etc are "I haven;t heard either, but....."
Every thread there's one or two or more people compelled to post even w/o any opinion of their own!
"I've never heard the Pimpernel X-1000 so I'm qualified to say...."

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Re: Audio-philes are funny people [message #1716 is a reply to message #1715]

Mon, 16 May 2005 15:01

spkrman57
Messages: 522
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

Bill,
Isn't that the cousin of the "pumpernickel"???

Ron

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Re: Audio-philes are funny people [message #1717 is a reply to message #1715]

Mon, 16 May 2005 15:44

colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Have you spoken with John about the DRD 300? I think he is starting his build (see link) If you're looking to cut some costs, you might want to see if Heyboer can custom wind a power and OPT for you. Tnuctipun (Sector-7G, aka Doug Piccard) might be able to help you spec some iron from these guys. Just a thought....Colin

http://audioroundtable.com/GroupBuild/messages/1116.html

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Re: Audio-philes are funny people [message #1719 is a reply to message #1715]

Mon, 16 May 2005 18:02

Norris Wilson
Messages: 361
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

Hi Bill,
I saw an article about the Welborne DRD 300B in the May issue of the Hi Fi News while I was thumbing through the book store today.
I did not read it, but it may be worth looking at if you give any creditability to audio articles. I did not remember seeing any Welborne advertisements in the magazine, so you may be safe.
Have you heard the pumpernel X-2000, it is twice as good as the X-1000, and it is twice as expensive, but worth it.
Good luck on the DIY, it is the best bang for the buck way to achieve high quality audio for a reasonable cost, and it is fun.
Norris Wilson

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Re: Audio-philes are funny people [message #1721 is a reply to message #1717]

Mon, 16 May 2005 19:12

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Thanks for the vote of confidence Colin; My fraction of a cent worth of opinion is this. Don't build until you find a way to hear the amp. These amps ain't cheap as kits and if you don't like it you bought it.
The word on the DRD is it is very laid back. I can only guess but if it sounds like the amp described in VTV that the DRD is based on; then it has a very distinct sonic personality. Probably good for a CD only system.
I personally am not a huge fan of the Bottlehead stuff. I find it hyper-detailed and fatiqueing; your mileage may vary. But considor this, why are bottleheads always searching for speakers that work well with those amps?
I am not familiar with the other amp.
There is no re-sale in DIY but; here's the rub. The Guinevere pre-amp is the most enjoyable pre I have ever been exposed to. Colin; you have it; offer up a listen.
If Doug can come up with that good of a piece w/o half-trying, then I would trust any of his amp designs.
The Merlin runs about 550/650$ to build. And those transformers can be used over and again for many types of amps. You can re-use or sell the tubes. So the real possible loss is about 350$.
Absolute worst case scenario; the amp is not the best you have ever heard; it most certainly will be thoroughly listenable.
As far as other kits go; I find them expensive for what you get and I would probably just buy a good used amp rather than get too involved in putting together someone elses favorite amp.
Or try one of the good Japanese guys like Sun or Asano. They run about 1200$ for a kit but they use very good trans and exceptional parts quality. They also have excellent re-sale value.
Thats all folks.

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Re: Audio-philes are funny people [message #1723 is a reply to message #1715]

Mon, 16 May 2005 19:21

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

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Re: Audio-philes are funny people [message #1726 is a reply to message #1721]

Tue, 17 May 2005 07:23

GarMan
Messages: 960
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

About your comment that kits are "expensive for what you get", I would say yes and no. For every kit in the market, you can certainly put together the same bill of material using decent bargin parts for less cost. But as much as I push myself to go in that direction, I always end up using upgraded parts and end up spending more than the cost of the kit.

Kits, scatch, used? Really depends on priority. No wrong answer as long as you understand why you're doing it.

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Re: Audio-philes are funny people [message #1727 is a reply to message #1726]

Tue, 17 May 2005 07:35

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

How about this current fad of cloning amps and loudspeakers? Seems you can do a search on the net for almost any popular piece and someone has reversed engineered it.
I would offer that value enters the picture here. If you are building a kit for personal satisfaction then o'kay. I don't see the point of it after doing it myself. So you really want to be able to get the best possible sound for your budget.

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Re: Audio-philes are funny people [message #1728 is a reply to message #1726]

Tue, 17 May 2005 15:25

BillEpstein
Messages: 886
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

If you look at the price of transformers, caps and resistors bought at retail kits are no bargain. Only if you're in the "far right column" at Digikey, Mouser, PE, etc can you beat the manufacturer at his own game.
However, having built the thing, you can tailor it's sound to your personal taste or just have fun tearing it up and doing it over. Not to mention participating in a group efort where ideas and methods are shared and tried out.
Buy the right kit and re-sale is no problem. Build from scratch with the right parts and pedigree and resale should likewise be little problem.
For the cost of the Paraglow or DRD 300B kit I could buy a good used CJ or ARC Amp and be done with it.............
..........But where's the fun in that?

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Re: Audio-philes are funny people [message #1729 is a reply to message #1728]

Tue, 17 May 2005 17:18

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Well; ARC and CJ don't sound all that great to my ears. Truth be told I'd rather have an Eico HF 86 anyday than either of them. I think ARC is too regulated and sounds dry. CJ has too much old tube sound.
To all contemplating building kits; take a look at this site;
DIYCLUB.Biz. You may be surprised.
There are three guys already on the DIYTube forum that have very favorable reports on this stuff. These reports are from respectable sources.
At the price there is no going wrong. I think the future of DIY lies in this direction. They have the enthusiasm that is now lacking in the kit scene. Thats why; I think the GC's are so big. More fun at not bank-breaking prices designed to provide the money to send someones kid to Harvard. Kits in this country seem to be at the point the high end was at 15 yrs ago.
Except Pi Loudspeakers of course. Still reigning best bang for the buck.

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