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Turntable Thoughts [message #12749]

Wed, 01 February 2006 19:29

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Pondering a possible move on the table currently a stock 1984 Linn Sondek with a Black Ittok type III. I can upgrade; that would include a new main bearing and some suspension parts/outboard motor controller. Linn parts would equal about 1500$ for thosse upgrades if I bought used.
I am looking at the Loth X non-suspended table using a solid acrylic plinth and huge DC motor with a titanium main bearing of some integrity. The platter is massive. The Table is 1500 w/o arm. A nice Morch UDX 4 would compliment that set-up beautifully and runsabout 1200$ putting me at 3K$ with a brand new Shelter cartridge; 601 probably.
I use a pair of Loth X ION's as my small speakers and if you are familiar with them then enough said.
My quandry is one; I love the feel and warm sound of the linn even with the mid-bass hump; which compliments the flat frequency response of the PI Theater 4's nicely warming up the usual detail and open sound of the PI's.
But the Linn is a guilty pleasure in the sense that it helps older recordings; especially Jazz but can smooth out newer quality stuff a little more than should be acceptable. Especially using the Denon with a slightly rising High end.
Anyway I know I am not the only guy facing this choice; so I wonder what the general consensus might be regarding these types of considerations. Hopefully there are some replies here so I don't have to migrate to a more accepting site for this discussion.
Now more than ever there are serious re-issues of many eccellent older recordings of note. This makes the possibility of just chucking vinyl and focusing on CD less attractive than two or three years ago.
Looks like Vynil is here to stay.
This is brought home to me when I see beautifull re-issues of Buck Owens and The Buckeroos live at Carnegie Hall and the Byrds back catalogue. The Spirit Double Album I have been listening to is so organic and real I can't take it off the table. And my Copy of Appalachian Spring is transfixing.

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Re: An uninformed post [message #12750 is a reply to message #12749]

Wed, 01 February 2006 20:26

Bill Epstein
Messages: 1088
Registered: May 2009
Location: Smoky Mts. USA

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

"I've never heard a Linn but I'm sure..."
Taking everyone's word that the Ariston is a Linn in other clothing, I can say that simply replacing the 20 year old springs and bolts made a substantial difference in the "balance" of sound. And the Dynavector 10X5 reveals the good and bad of recordings,
'Spirit'. Great group. Can't say enough about Joni's 'Miles Of Aisles'; one of the great live recordings of anything.
I'll be at a record ahow Sat morning surrounded by all the obsolete and dead vinyl of music unobtainable on CD unless at 2 and 3 times the price.
"12 dollars? You overpaid for that Sonny Rollins." Right, and $18 for a CD is a good deal, right?

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Re: An uninformed post [message #12751 is a reply to message #12750]

Thu, 02 February 2006 02:54

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

The Ariston is a decent deck; so's Sota; VPI; Well Tempered; it's just the Linn is still avilable and can be upgraded. And of course the musicality.
I'm not really a Dynavector fan. I like the heavy massive MC's low output. If I had the means I would do an EMT, but the Shelter or the Denon is the next best sounding cart now that Fidelity Research is gone the way of the Dodo. Unless I can find another Empire MC gold. After that; Audio Note IQ. Although the Audio Technica ML 150 is for sale at Audio Cubes; thats a possibility in MM carts.
The record shows; those sharks save all the good stuff for e-pay and leave the leavings for the proletariates like us. I walked out of the big one in Manhattan and demanded my money back; they had so much dreck on the floor while they have lists of "Rare and Distinctive recordings; go to their website." But yes; if you can get the good recordings then 18/20$ is more than fair; if you can get them. Really; 35$ is fair for good Jazz comparatively speaking to what they used to cost in real dollars.

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Re: An uninformed post [message #12752 is a reply to message #12751]

Thu, 02 February 2006 05:32

Bill Epstein
Messages: 1088
Registered: May 2009
Location: Smoky Mts. USA

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

Your experience in Manhattan is a shame. Here in Columbus it's more of a "flea market" and the 15 or 20 LP vendors bring everything they have. 4 copies of Sgt. Peppers $10 to $15 and the like depending on condition as well as rare Jazz stuff for $50 to $100.
I just want to hear the music I want to hear; rarity or chic means nothing to me so I generally leave with a bag full of vinyl.
I wish the dealers would quit throwing away the Opera until I've had a chance to go through it, dammit!
It's really true that I've only once heard a Linn and then only in passing. Back in the 'flush' Eighties when I was moving up from an AR-XA the VPI HW-19 III and the SOTA's were "it", at least in S. Florida. Tone arms were ET, Dynavector and Souther. Cart's were Grado on the low end, ADC such as the XLM in the middle, Sumiko and Kuetsu on top. I thought the SOTA's had too much bass and didn't trust the vacuum system. Likewise, I didn't see how the extra complexity of the DV or Souther arms could be a good thing. Went with the VPI/ET combo which I thought was smooth and neutral. Step-up devices were way expensive, like Cotter so my Muse Model One or NYAL Minuet pre-amps saw the Talisman Virtuoso Dti hi-output.Now that was a "musical" combo.
The Ariston/ SME I now have is more 'colored' than what I remember of the VPI/ET and adding the 10X5 seems to tone that down some. Yes, it is a bit 'hot' on top but the Grado's I tried were too romantic. Steve Brown has an XLM on an SME arm and that is a VERY good combination. Now that step-ups are common, simpler and waay cheaper I plan to try a Denon soon.
Music is always "fun" to listen too; Vinyl LP's are "fun", in contrast to the aluminum discs, before you ever put them on the platter.

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Re: Turntable Thoughts [message #12753 is a reply to message #12749]

Thu, 02 February 2006 08:25

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Oh, wow, that would be a cool deal. I'd loooove to hear that table sometime.

By the way, on vinyl, I see a bit of a resurgence. It may be nostalgia, or maybe the large number of folks that still have record albums and need a way to play them. But whatever the cause, it seems there has been renewed interest in vinyl these days, with even some new mainstream turntable products being offered for sale. So I agree with you that vinyl records and turntables will be around a while longer.

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"12 dollars? You overpaid for that Sonny Rollins." Right, and $18 for a CD is a good deal, [message #12754 is a reply to message #12750]

Thu, 02 February 2006 08:27

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

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Used record shops [message #12755 is a reply to message #12752]

Thu, 02 February 2006 08:31

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Yeah, you can get pretty decent vinyl records in the used music stores here in Tulsa too. Looks to me like a younger generation gets hand-me-downs and goes to the record shops and sells them en masse. But then that just lets 'em get snatched up by the audiophiles!

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Re: Used record shops [message #12758 is a reply to message #12755]

Thu, 02 February 2006 10:31

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

With us older guys you seem to get two types of buyers. Guys like Bill who were involved in the past and are now seeking to become involved again through the used shows and stores. For Bill the shows are a very good thing because if you are looking for Classical/Opera or rock then there are countless bins of 2$ records in very good shape.
Truthfully I envy that situation considering that I purchased most of my albums throughout the years for a higher price than I can get them for now. Unfortunately guys who went my way now have most of what they want but the records that are now worth chasing have been hoarded by collectors and as I say are sold on E-Pay for ridiculous prices. One of the reasons I now buy most of the Jazz stuff on CD.
Upon re-reading my post earlier I wish to ammend the tone somewhat. Regarding low-output MC's I don't recommend them unless you are a hard-core vynil lover. The added cost of a step-up or MC amp coupled with the stylus that cannot be replaced just ain't worth it anymore. I like colored sound(if that is what it is) that you get with big fat low output MC's like the FR or Empire and Denon somewhat. It just sounds more musical to me. Cartridges like the Dynavector are easier to deal with and probably more accurate in playback. Comparing cost then there is no contest since the quality of a cartridge of that calibre is unobtainable with LO MC unless you are wealthier than I am.
I went through the Grado phase and realised I don't care for them after succumbing to reviews in audio rags.
If I were to be asked I would say that for 250$ the Audio Technica ML 150 is my personal choice in fairly priced MM cartridges. Your Mileage may vary. If you have 500$ the Shelter is the clear winner. Now if you asked me what I could love; Ortofon SPU and THe Ortofon Tonearm. I just don't happen to have a spare 3500$. Then the EMT on the EMT Table. After that; the Denon is a steal but you need a good step-up. So then 250+225 for the transformer; tough call.
Regarding LinnTT. They are fat sounding and slow on detail recovery. It's just a sound you either love or not.
But time seems to have passed them by somewhat; hence the Loth X exploration. Although with a little upgrade work who knows?? The Linn companies upgrades are insanely priced so unless you get them used.

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Re: Used record shops [message #12759 is a reply to message #12758]

Thu, 02 February 2006 15:08

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I have an old Audio Technica cartridge too, their top of the line in the early eighties. I have always liked that cartridge. I also have a Rega Super Elys, which is by all rights a better cartridge. Sounds nice too, but I still have a fondness for the AT. The Audio Technica sounds more neutral to me, while the Rega sounds a little fatter on the bottom end.

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Re: Used record shops [message #12760 is a reply to message #12759]

Thu, 02 February 2006 16:32

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Yep; thats exactly it; the Regas have a fat bottom. Man The Exact used to shatter granite with that bass. Talk about a hot cartridge. For a long time the AT 150 disappeared but it seems to have been resurrected. I would also put in a word for the Audio Note IQ series.

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