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Home » Sponsored » Pi Speakers » How does one emulate the typical theater sound?
| How does one emulate the typical theater sound? [message #73465] |
Fri, 03 August 2012 03:14  |
j0nnyfive
Messages: 50
Registered: June 2012
Location: Arkansas
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Baron |
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Howdy!
I'm trying to emulate my local movie theater in terms of sound quality. I THINK... the big difference between them and me is in the highs. I think my 2 Pi speakers are playing higher frequencies than the theater. Not sure, but that's what it sounds like to me. It could be their EQ, speaker capabilities, or the fact that their screen is in front of their speakers. Or absorptive material in the room maybe. All of the above?
My ear discomfort (tinnitus?) has been helped quite a bit by moving the speaker away from the wall about a foot. Now I can play the speaker at a level where I can comfortably hear the dialogue without too much discomfort later. I really think my small room with nearby walls may be enhancing the high frequencies somehow. Boosting/reflecting them. I'd like to dampen them more to sound more like the local theater.
Wayne, or anybody else with experience, do you have some ideas that might help me out? Also, does Audyssey undo any tweaks I would make? Do you recommend leaving Audyssey off and just playing direct? The tweaks I'm considering now are turning the speakers off axis about 30 degrees or so, and I'm also considering adding more fiberglass to the inside, but that may not do what I think it will.
Sorry for rambling guys. Could ya help a hick out? The theater sound I'm thinking of is one where it SOUNDS loud and powerful, but I don't have tinnitus afterwards. I don't know how they are able to pull this off, but they do somehow. Thanks! 
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| Re: How does one emulate the typical theater sound? [message #73468 is a reply to message #73465] |
Fri, 03 August 2012 10:15  |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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My home theater sounds much better than any theater I've even been to. Most of the better theaters are running JBL Pro gear, which sounds pretty good, but for whatever reason it is still not nearly as refined as my system. Sounds grainy and artificial by comparison. And that's the best ones, the average ones sound like Best Buy crap.
Now then, I've never been to a Dinner Theater with a well-designed custom sound system. I expect those to be much better. In fact, many of them are running π speakers. Some of them are documented here on the forum.
I'm running a pair of three π mains (or sometimes four π mains) with three π flanking subs. They are toed-in 45°, axes crossed in front of the listening chairs.
I have two π surrounds beside and slightly behind and above the listening chairs. I set them up to reflect off the side walls, so there is actually very little direct sound from the surrounds, it's all reflected. That setup was an experiment that I feel worked wonders. Sound from the surrounds really does just that - it surrounds you.
I don't run any sound processors at all. I have a Denon 3800BDCI BluRay player that supplies all the channels, and I just run them into an amplifier and out to the speakers. I'm running Audio Note amplification for the mains and ProFet amps for the subs. I don't use a preamp, I run directly from source into a potentiometer (RDAC, actually) and into the main amp. It's pretty much a minimalist system.
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| Re: How does one emulate the typical theater sound? [message #73480 is a reply to message #73475] |
Sat, 04 August 2012 06:04 |
j0nnyfive
Messages: 50
Registered: June 2012
Location: Arkansas
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Baron |
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I've been running straight mode the past few times I've listened to the speakers. I think this does help! But if I'm going to run these straight, I think I definitely need a sub... I really need a sub anyway.
I'm not sure if it's only on surround sound DVDs or not. I haven't noticed a big difference between disks. The vast majority of the time I'm running blu ray (if that makes a difference).
Wayne, you need a projector w/ AT screen!  Also curious, what model of RDAC are you running? I may go this direction if I'm going to get amps.. unless I NEED a preamp. ? Not sure..
I recently read elsewhere where a guy wrote that the louder he listens to movies, the more rolloff he wanted in the high frequencies, and the quieter he listened, the more high frequency detail he wanted. When I read this, it really clicked with me. I had the Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers (they're at my parent's house now), and I really like the sound. I like to turn them up, but it feels like the high frequencies become stabbing, although the lower frequencies are fine. I'm not an audio expert.. would you guys say that I'm probably a "warm" speaker type of guy?  Or is this just a universal thing where the louder you want, the less high freq you probably need?
Thanks!
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| Re: How does one emulate the typical theater sound? [message #73482 is a reply to message #73480] |
Sat, 04 August 2012 09:02 |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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You're absolutely right. With a projector and screen, you can put the center speaker behind the screen. That's definitely the best approach. When running a plasma or LCD screen though, I'd have to say I don't think there is a good center channel option. That's why I prefer a phantom center. When the R/L axes are crossed, it works very well, especially when the mains are only a dozen feet apart or so.
As for subs, you definitely need them. They aren't just there for extension, but also for modal smoothing. The idea is to run a sub close to each main: a foot or two below, beside and behind, in between the main speaker being flanked and the nearest boundaries. The main is on stands, the sub on the floor; The main is pulled out from the wall a foot or two, the sub is pushed back against the wall. The sub also sits outboard slightly, in between the main speaker and the nearest sidewall.
The reason flanking subs are needed is midbass and deepest lower midrange are omnidirectional, and the sound goes everywhere with equal SPL. The sound that bounces off nearby boundaries is delayed slightly as it arrives your ears compared to the direct sound, which comes straight at you. But the reflected sound is almost as loud, so at frequencies where it is out-of-phase because of the delay, it almost completely cancels, leaving a big hole in response. The peaks surrounding this self-reflection notch contrast greatly, and depending on the frequency where it occurs (which is determined by the distances to boundaries), it can make the sound thin or nasal. Or it can go the other way and make a sort of hollow, tubby sound, even throaty.
The way flanking subs work is they counteract the self-reflection notches. Where the distances between main speaker, boundary and listener all conspire to create a hole in response, the different set of distances between sub, boundary and response tend to "fill in the hole". Likewise, where a hole is formed from the self-interference between sub and wall, the main speaker fills it in. This limits the size of the hole to about 6dB versus what it would be without flanking subs: 15dB to 25dB. Flanking subs make a 10dB to 20dB improvement in the smoothness of the 100-200Hz range, similar to the modal smoothing more distant multisubs provide below 100Hz.
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| Re: How does one emulate the typical theater sound? [message #73485 is a reply to message #73484] |
Sat, 04 August 2012 18:22 |
j0nnyfive
Messages: 50
Registered: June 2012
Location: Arkansas
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Baron |
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Wayne, thanks for that explanation! I really do want subs, but unfortunately....... *sigh*...... they have to wait a while longer. Doh! So painful...
I went back and forth on the issue "Center channel or no center channel" for a long time. Now, I don't have a choice. My love for big speakers prevents one from fitting below my screen. lol
Let me ask you this Wayne... just doing damage control and making the best of what I have... where, theoretically, would be the best place to put my 2 speakers? They are 2 Pi.. so, would you have them out away from a boundary, or would you put them right up against the boundary/wall? Right now, I think the best place seems to be away from the wall. I did a LOT of tinkering today. Messed with a ton of settings on my receiver, and I think I've found some good compromises.
I say compromises (also to the last poster) because I'm really in no position to treat my room right now (financially or practically) because I'm in an apartment, and I'm probably going to be moving out shortly. So, the room will change. But let's say it didn't change... what are some cheap (one-size-fits-all) treatment tricks a person can do to improve their sound? I have carpet, and a thick rug. The side wall that the speakers are nearest has french doors that are covered in blackout fabric. And I'm angling the speakers in such a way as to avoid as much wall reflection as possible. I'm with ya on the room sentiment! I know it's super important. It's also the most confusing aspect for a noob. lol
Thanks!
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I'll just run them direct and move them around the room and see what this does to the overall sound. I think Audyssey may be nice, but there could be a flaw in my microphone placement. ? Maybe? Dunno. 
