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15" woofer [message #71029]

Wed, 18 January 2012 10:26

Arthur C
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2011
Location: Paris, FRANCE

Chancellor

Hi everybody,

I would like to have some information concerning a good substitute for the 4 pi.

I have seen that only two 15" woofer have been retained by Wayne Parham Omega Pro 15 A & 2226H, but :

- the price of the Eminence Omega Pro 15 A is tremendously expensive in France: 240 euros / woofer : around 300 USD (near 600 USD for a pair !!!).
- In the same manner, the JBL 2226 H is very expensive: 450 euros, around 600 USD and is not available ...

The Eminence Pro series are not popular in France. Beyma speakers, manufactured in Spain are much more used by DIYers and in pro audio, that's the reason why Eminence pro serie speakers are so expensive.
Thus, I would be interesting to have you point of view for a good substitute. Any ideas are very welcomed. The purpose of my 4 pis is for home HiFi with a 100 watts amplifier and quite level.

On my side, I have seen these speakers, Beyma SM 115 N or Beyma SM 115 K or the Monacor SPA-38/PA. I have also been advised about the Emincne Legend CB 15 that could be a good substitute with a nice vintage sound approach.
The Alpha, Beta, Delta series of Eminence are not to expensive in France.

Many thanks in advance for all your responses and contributions.

Best regards.

Arthur.

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Re: 15" woofer [message #71032 is a reply to message #71029]

Wed, 18 January 2012 14:42

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18789
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I tested Beyma and B&C woofers and didn't like them in my two-way designs. It's not necessarily that they weren't good, they may be, but they didn't work as well as I hoped in either the three π or the four π loudspeakers. They might have been usable, but I couldn't get them to be perfect. Midrange quality is important, and integration with the tweeter is really the critical factor - If I can't get the crossover region dialed in, the midwoofer is not the best match. So I never have offered Beyma or B&C woofers in any of my matched-directivity two-way loudspeakers.

It has been a few years since I evaluated them, and I can't remember which model was best but there was one B&C driver that was closest to what I wanted. One 15" midwoofer was about on par with the Omega 15. It wasn't as good as JBL in quality and the price wasn't good enough to justify it as a replacement for the Eminence. That's why I never offered it. But maybe this situation is different for you, so if you want to try your hand on a design with an alternate midwoofer, this link may be helpful to you:

Notes for the DIYer

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Re: 15" woofer [message #71049 is a reply to message #71032]

Fri, 20 January 2012 02:58

Arthur C
Messages: 13
Registered: November 2011
Location: Paris, FRANCE

Chancellor

Dear Wayne,

Many thanks for your e-mail, the attached link and clarifications.

I perfectly understand that the key point for the 4Pi 15" woofer is the quality of its midrange and its integration with the compression driver due to the crossover point. I am not very familiar with cross over, but in accordance to me the cross over frequency between the woofer and the CD should be around 1.400 HZ at -5db. Thus, I have understood that few 15" such integration.

Yesterday evening, I have tried a temporary solution. I have an old Sansui SP 3500 with a 14 " woofer (old 4 ways / 6 speakers of the 70'). I have firstly removed all the speakers and kept only the 14" woofer. (Of course, I haven't found any T&S parameters concerning the woofer ... ). Then, I have plugged the 4 pi cross over and the B&C DE 250 Compression driver.

I was very impressed by the quality of the CD and its dynamic and neutrality. The second impression is that the Sansui 14" is quite good. The only think is that the enclosure seems too small and strangles its capabilities to reproduce the low frequencies. The second think is its ability to reproduce midrange frequencies, let's says after 1000 Hz.

Wayne you are perfectly right when you say quality of the midrange is very important for the 15" driver. The second noticeable point is that the CD have to be closed to the 15" is order to have a coherent sound.

Many thanks for all your work and explanations.

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