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Tax Rates by Income group pre and post Bush tax cuts [message #54673] Thu, 13 October 2005 12:47 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
In the 100-200k income range the IRS reports there are 13,281x1000 filings. That point occurs at the 9.3 % population line.
Their total tax liability for 2004 was $3,821.00 on average less than it was for the year of 2000 pre-tax cuts. That represents a total cut of 24.5% on average.
The group in the 40-50k income range recieved a 5% total tax change and an increase in tax returns of $900 from the pre-bush cuts.
Thats 24.5% for the 200k's vs. 5% for the 50k's.
I will offer each income groups totals as we go along. I cannot tie up all of Wayne's bandwidth with a five page summary of all tax data currently available
For anyone interested you can find this info on IRS.GOV under tax stats.

Here let me help.. [message #54676 is a reply to message #54673] Thu, 13 October 2005 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
I can not find any of this information on IRS.gov.

So let me help you to paste a link. Go to the page where you found the above information. Once at the PDF file site.

1) Highlight the address in the address bar (drag curser over address till it turns blue).

2) While holding down the ctrl key on your key board press the letter "C". This will copy the address to your computer.

3) Then come back here and you can paste the link below in the "optional Link URL" box. You can do this by

1) clicking in the box to put the blinking curser in it as if going to type something.

2) Then while holding down the ctrl key on your key board press the letter "V".

This will paste the address to the pdf file and put a link in your post. No need to waste bandwidth. Just a link. I then will be able to find what you are looking at.

Thanks

Re: Here let me help.. [message #54678 is a reply to message #54676] Thu, 13 October 2005 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
You have to look; these tables are pages long. I have a simplified set of tables so let me get them up and running. See below so we can stay on the same page concerning the debate.
I have Firefox and it is always a problem with cut and paste to websites.

Re: Here let me help.. [message #54679 is a reply to message #54676] Thu, 13 October 2005 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
BTW the alternative minimum tax originated in 1969 with the introduction of the Minimum Tax rule. Carter didn't do it.

Re: Here let me help.. [message #54680 is a reply to message #54679] Thu, 13 October 2005 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
The original tax you are talking about did originate in 1969. But was reformed into the "Alternative Minimum Tax" by Carter. See link and here is the part I am talking about from the site.

1978 Reforms

"The Alternative Minimum Tax that Americans are now grappling with was introduced in its present format as a result of tax reform in 1978. While the Congress rejected many of President Jimmy Carter's proposals, Congress did choose to approve tax cuts geared toward upper-income groups; these included cuts in capital gains and corporate taxes. The final legislation, the Revenue Act of 1978, featured $18.7 billion in tax cuts. The bill formally transformed the minimum tax devised in 1969 into the "Alternative Minimum Tax" and increased the percentage in taxes that individuals would be required to pay. Media reports indicated that the reductions in capital gains taxes would be offset by increases in the AMT. "


Re: Here let me help.. [message #54681 is a reply to message #54678] Thu, 13 October 2005 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
ManualBlock I have read what you said below which amounts to "I am going to show this eventually". No different than what you have been saying.

I think it will be practically impossible to prove your point. Because in order to prove your point you will have to prove this things.

1) How much the rich report (again I think the top 30% of income earners is a fair place to start.) This figure is easy to find.

2) How much the rich have sheltered. Don't know how you could prove this if it isn't reported anywhere. Someone estimates are useless here and only an opinion.

3) If the rich are sheltering money what kind of shelters are they? Do they have to pay taxes on the money eventually? In other words are they just tax differed shelters or something else. Again almost impossible to show because it isn't reported anywhere.

4) If you want to show that Bush's administration has compounded this problem you then would have to show not only that the Republicans pushed the bills through enabling these shelters and that Bush signed them into law. But also all of the above.

Pretty tall order. I prefer to believe the tax analyzers from the US Treasury dept.



Re: Tax Rates by Income group pre and post Bush tax cuts [message #54682 is a reply to message #54673] Thu, 13 October 2005 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Why don't you BECOME rich, John?
If you aren't already.
It's probably easier than trying to take distribute income from the rich to the poor, esp. since the rich hold all the power.

-akhilesh

Re: Tax Rates by Income group pre and post Bush tax cuts [message #54683 is a reply to message #54682] Thu, 13 October 2005 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
MY point exactly. I knew eventually we would get more voices in on the action. And voila' an excellent participant.
Thanks AK.

Re: Here let me help.. [message #54684 is a reply to message #54680] Thu, 13 October 2005 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Thats correct.

Re: Here let me help.. [message #54685 is a reply to message #54681] Thu, 13 October 2005 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Well yeah but again what does that tell you?

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