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Personal Income Tax paid by you and me VS Income tax on Investments [message #54637] Wed, 12 October 2005 14:06 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
One of the reasons we as middle class taxpayers get screwed is the Bush administrations lowering of the capital gains tax rate. According to IRS data on wealth and taxes from their site that you can look up is this:
Most American housholds (89%) earned 70% of their income from work and only 10% of their income from capital gains. For the top ten percent of taxpayers the situation is reversed; they make only 10% of their income from work and 70% from capital gains. The IRS reports that under-reporting of capital gains income due to the lack of automatic reporting programs and hidden payouts exceeds billions each year. The exact figure cannot be relied upon due to accounting fraud but the estimate by the IRS is well into the billions.
Now the top tax rate for income as it exists now is 35% but the top rate for capital gains is 15% as a result of the 2003 Bush tax cuts. To combat this inequality there must be a higher withholding for capital gains and automatic withdrawal like we do with income taxes.
To be continued.

More of the same erroneous statements..... [message #54641 is a reply to message #54637] Wed, 12 October 2005 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
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Illuminati (1st Degree)
All of what you say is just unsubstantiated comments. It is in direct contrast to the web site I provided that stated the following:

"The President’s tax cuts have shifted a larger share of the individual income taxes paid to higher income taxpayers. In 2004, when most of the tax cut provisions are fully in effect (e.g., lower tax rates, the $1,000 child credit, marriage penalty relief), the projected tax share for lower-income taxpayers will fall, while the tax share for higher-income taxpayers will rise."

"The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.9 percent of all individual income taxes in 2001. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share."


I showed you where I got my numbers. I cut and pasted several times and put several links in. Don't say look it up. You show it! If you can't show it, then it is just unsubstantiated ramblings.

Also 15% is a lot higher than the 5%-8% you are supposed to be proving. And that 15% doesn't take into account the 35% they are paying on the income they are reporting. So even if your numbers are correct (which at this time are highly suspect) you are still way off of your original statement.


Re: More of the same erroneous statements..... [message #54642 is a reply to message #54641] Wed, 12 October 2005 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Read the first half of the post. They claim 10% of their income from work and 70% from investments. Thats why they pay much less in taxes.
But thats not all. The top 1% of taxpayers had an increase in income derived from tax deffered and tax sheltered income of over 500% from 1970 to the present while the middle income braketts enjoyed an increase in income of nothing. The average income for the bottom 90% of housholds actually decreased acording to the IRS from an average of 27,060 to 27,035. Total income growth for the top 14,000 households has increased by 23,900,000$ total VS. 3,600,000$ for the bottom 93% since 1970.
You quote the 50% tax figure for the top 10% leaving out the fact that they grew their income by 8.5 times the amount of the bottom 93%; yet they pay the same percentage of tax dollars. How to explain that?
Next I have the figures for the AGI for 2003 that shows how much the inequality has grown for the middle class VS the wealthy(meaning those over 317k per year income)

Provide a link to any of this information please... [message #54643 is a reply to message #54642] Wed, 12 October 2005 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
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Illuminati (1st Degree)
I can't find any of it.

Re: Provide a link to any of this information please... [message #54645 is a reply to message #54643] Wed, 12 October 2005 15:48 Go to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
IRS.GOV/STATS

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