Comments?

Larry

When used in a seven π cornerhorn, I tuned lower (40Hz) so that the resulting curve was slightly overdamped. But a 2.1ft3 - 2.5ft3 box tuned to 55-60Hz is just perfect for a JBL 2205, providing flat response down to 60Hz. This works very well for a four π cabinet.

Like Bill, I am amazed at how a good speaker with moderate ( say 40 Hz) measured response can sound so powerful in its bass response playing music. Now I have heard a great full range system recently, the Linkwitz Labs Orion. Really impressive speakers. But with non classical music, and more typical instruments, what is really necessary? I don't feel like I'm missing anything when I listen to jazz or rock music. I believe the Orions were down about 6 Db at 20 Hz. I'm willing to bet nobody feels that a speaker like a Pro 7 Pi is lacking anything in low frequency response. What is going on with our perception of bass? Are we responding to psychoaccoustic influences relative to SPL or what?

Cheers,

Steve

Add a powered sub for extra bottom end.

The bonus for tuning at 60hz is great dynamics that a lower frequency driver will not have as good!

Ron

I'm carrying about 400 lbs of speaker to reproduce Kick drum, some electric bass notes, and keyboards. Yet, I really feel we need all of the above to make the system sound as powerful as it is.

The thing I have found, is if the system has good extension into the bass, it can SEEM to be loud, but it is not. A good thumpin' kick has the fundamental at 80 Hz, 2nd harmonic at 160. Bump up the 160 and lo and behold, the kick seems much louder.

With CD playback, it is very rare that I see (on the RTA) that we approach 40 hz, much less anything below.

The subharmonic synths (aphex, et al) on the market are actually making the sub-fundamental. The psyco-acoustic processor boxes actually increase the second harmonic to make it appear the fundamental is more powerful.

The key for my rig is to use folded horns on the bass, rather than the dual 18's per side, which produce lots of harmonic distortion relative to the horns.

Loud CLEAN bass is good...

Larry

What Larry says is a revelation to me in terms of our own listening rooms. We often hear about the humps at or near 150 Hz that need bass traps or EQ. And as I recently discovered, the fundamental is way rolled off. As MB says, it's the "thump" we hear and not the fundamental. So I guess that explains why the system I built down 10 dB or more at 40Hz still has strong but boomy bass.

BTW, I went back to sandbox bases for my speakers just tonight. Bigger bases with more sand (50 lbs each) this time and I removed the fancy brass casters. Cleaner, clearer more detail better imaging; the whole 11 yards. If you have a suspended floor you have to try this. Would be interesting to hear the results on a concrete floor, as well.

This was something we always strived for when playing live. We did our own PA work and gradually figured it out over the years. We had some sort of horn cabinets our bass player made from some plans he got where we were running two 18" Peavey Black Widows in each cabinet with about 1500 watts going to each cab. Whatever he did they were nice and clean.

The comparison of listening to music in the home and listening live in a bar is something I have yet to understand. Does the home system reproduce music accurately? Unless I'm running at very, very loud levels I can't make a fair comparison. I've never played a gig or been to a show where the levels were at where most people listen at on their home setup. Even at the symphony, the levels are fairly loud if your in the right spot. I used to take my gradfather to pipe organ concerts at Century II in Wichita for years and let me tell you that damn thing was loud. When they hit a low not the whole building shook--COOL! Many people talk about this speaker or that speaker having great bass or not enough low bass. Well, unless I turn my amp up to clipping levels with my Pi Towers I'm not even approaching the perceived effect of playing live. The kick drum was more a viceral than anything else. When my brother stood up and came down with both pedals on a double bass we had the people's attention, by making them feel like they were getting "thumped" in the belly. Same with smacking that low bass guitar string.

Don't get me wrong, as the Towers produce nice, low bass at moderate listening levels that I can begin to "feel". At low listening levels, say as background music, the bass is there but you have to really listen for it, it doesn't poke it's head out and announce itself. But I know no one that listens at the levels to produce "live music", except maybe at parties (which my wife says I'm too old for now--she's right as always )

I guess my problem is that I'm accustomed to feeling that low end and well as hearing it, and that's what I associate with low bass.