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best for SET's [message #47688] Wed, 07 September 2005 05:47 Go to next message
sailor is currently offline  sailor
Messages: 6
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Hi Wayne, I have heard a horn system using an Edgarhorn for mids and knew immediately I wanted that sound. I have e-mailed Bruce Edgar a number of times but have never received a reply, then I recently discovered your site and forum but am unfamiliar with your products and need some help and advice please. Size of enclosure is not a problem but I am looking for the best possible sound from low powered SET's. Bi-amping is a possibility. I live in South Africa and JBL is unavailable but Eminence drivers are imported, though not the entire range. I can also buy a pair of Altec 421-8LF if you think they would be usefull in one of your or any other designs. It has been suggested that I consider a karlson enclosure for the Altecs. In my case I do not have corners to use but a friend who has asked me to help him with speaers has two corners to use on the short wall of a 17ft X 28ft well carpeted and damped living room. He is also in a financial position to import any drivers you might suggest. I have heard some single-driver systems and although impressive I miss the weight and slam necessary for greater involvment in the music but without losing midrange quality. Your ideas and recommendations would be greatly apprevciated.
Regards

Re: best for SET's [message #47689 is a reply to message #47688] Wed, 07 September 2005 06:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18791
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

There are lots of good speaker choices, depending on your amplifier and the price point you're comfortable with. For the room with useable corners, I'd suggest the best system would be the Audiophile Series seven π or seven π-18.

Audiophile Series seven π loudspeaker

Where you have no corners, I might suggest that you use an Eminence Magnum driver in a suitable enclosure below the midrange and tweeter shown above. I have plans for those too, if you're interested.

One advantage of corner loading is that it forces a radiation angle of 90º. You can see in the photo above that the midrange and tweeter also have this pattern, so this reduces reflections. When the woofer is placed in or near the corners, room modes are equally charged. Also, since all sound sources share the same 90º radiation pattern, the reverberent field has an equal distribution of frequencies and sound is uniform and natural throughout the room. This not only helps make the "sweet spot" larger, but it also makes the sound more balanced within the sweet spot.


Re: best for SET's [message #47690 is a reply to message #47689] Wed, 07 September 2005 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crazy Dave is currently offline  Crazy Dave
Messages: 67
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Hi Wayne,

In the past you have recommended low Zmax woofers for single ended tube amps. In this case do you feel that the benifits high magnet strengh of the Magnum outweigh the problems with high Zmax?

TIA

Dave

Re: best for SET's [message #47694 is a reply to message #47690] Wed, 07 September 2005 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18791
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

It depends on the choice of amp. Some of the low-cost entry level kits definitely work best with speakers having low Zmax.


My stab at this... [message #47698 is a reply to message #47694] Thu, 08 September 2005 03:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roland is currently offline  roland
Messages: 46
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Hi there,

I think the ETF presentation by Lynn may shed some light on this.

http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/ETF.html

Looking at the output loop of a conventional SE amplifier and combining this with hi vs low Zmax you could assume that the 'longer' path to ground with a larger cap between SE xformer and earth will affect performance more than let's say the parafeed arrangement with s small cap to ground handles the AC part of the signal....maybe why parafeed seem less sensitive to speakers than conventional SE. This of course not heard by me, only based on comment from the board.

The ETF presentation great for understanding the different topologies anyway...a must read???

PS Wayne. Planning the build of the Stage4, should happen in 2 weeks time...home alone one weekend:) no distractions.


Output impedance and reactive loads [message #47699 is a reply to message #47698] Thu, 08 September 2005 04:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18791
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

That's a great link, thanks!

What we're dealing with here is essentially a voltage divider with a reactive load that varies with frequency. If the output circuit is a constant voltage source, it isn't as sensitive to reactive loads as a constant current source. Some SET amps have high output impedance, which makes the amp act like a current source. As a result, load impedance fluxuations cause corresponding response fluxuations.

Here are some other good links:


Re: best for SET's [message #47700 is a reply to message #47689] Thu, 08 September 2005 04:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sailor is currently offline  sailor
Messages: 6
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Yes thank you Wayne, I am interested in the plans for the mid and high horns. What are the crossover points you recommend. You also suggest an Eminence Magnum in a suitable enclosure. Would that be the 15" or 18" and what size box and port is required. I would like the width of the box to match the width of the midrange horn, so will adjust height and depth to obtain the required internal volume. I also like the look of your Thermionic 8 Pi and wonder how this would compare to your recommendation of Eminence Magnum with mid and tweeter horns on top. I showed the picture of the Audiophile Series seven Pi to my friend who is quite excited about it and he and I would both like to know what the difference in performance is between the 15" and 18"
Regards


You've got mail! [message #47701 is a reply to message #47700] Thu, 08 September 2005 05:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18791
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I'll send plans for the seven π, seven π-18 and eight π speakers. Each of these includes the crossover, which has been optimized for the drivers indicated mounted in the positions shown in the plans. You can decide what is best for you.

Naturally, the seven π-18 with it's 18" woofer delivers deeper response than the seven π with a 15" driver. It has a larger driver in a larger box. The crossover point to the midhorn is very low, so midbass and midrange performance is virtually identical. The eight π is a different configuration entirely, and really no comparison should be made. It is designed for a different price point.


Re: My stab at this... [message #47703 is a reply to message #47698] Thu, 08 September 2005 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crazy Dave is currently offline  Crazy Dave
Messages: 67
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
That was qite a good read. Thanks for the link. Amp speaker interaction is quite an interesting subject.

Dave

Re: Output impedance and reactive loads [message #47704 is a reply to message #47699] Thu, 08 September 2005 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Crazy Dave is currently offline  Crazy Dave
Messages: 67
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Hi Wayne,

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out tonight.

Dave

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