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Thoughts [message #2858] Fri, 24 March 2006 20:45 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
In the past three weeks or so I have come across a couple three observations made by audio afficianadas' of note that struck me as serious food for thought that do not follow the usual script we are subjected to mercilessly in redundancies.
Mr. Geddes in his observations on RMAF_ Further Comments essay observes his wife saying this about the high end purchasing descisions of audiophiles. She expresses surprise at the price tags on some of the equipment and why anyone would spend such sums on wires or other accessories. Her conclusion is that because there are fans of audio who cannot afford to buy 10k$ loudspeakers they can assauge their need for audio approval by investing in expensive accessories.
We always had a running joke regarding that very situation that went; ..why did the audiophile spend 600$ on two 3 ft wires? Becuse his wife wouldn't let him buy the 20k$ speakers.
But this observation was very cleverly interpreted by MS. Geddes and has a signifigance for all of us in the hobby. Why? because it is a real intuitive attempt at understanding the motivation of pschycic reward that impacts the descision making process of many of the people participating in the hobby. To find an astute comment anywhere in the literature concerning the real motivation behind choice that doesn't seek to employ the usual suspects dragged out at every opportunity as explanations for behaviour is so refreshing to see that it catches one off guard as to it's importance.
We had a small dialogue attended by few but earnest individuals on the Dungeon regarding some comments made by John Broskie of TubeCad Journal fame that again involved a unique perspective that was refreshingly candid.
Here's another; "When designing an amplifier my simplist goal is to reproduce music. I then consider music as an emotional expression transmitted in three dimensions through a pressure modulation in the air. It comes to me encoded as a time varying voltage of one or more channels. I wish to return this to an emotional expression but I do not have all of the original information; by the very nature of the recording process information is lost. I therefor DO NOT feel guilty about dramatising what I have to work with to increase the emotional content in keeping with my INTERPRETATION of the original performance. The Engineering interpretation of this gaol in building an amplifier involves the easy stuff....Distortion is a concern ofamplifier design. As you can tell from the previous paragraph I am not particularly worried about harmonic distortion. The amplifier should be able to deliver low distortion of the components of the that are important to communicating the emotion. To me this means making sure the distortion inherent in all amplifiers does not get in the way; but not to chase measurements of distortion just because it is POSSIBLE." Ed Simon.
Rather than provide a tedious reflection on why these types of observations are critical to the maturity of thought we must chase in this hobby I leave the opinions to the readers except to say thank you to the authors for some refreshing perceptual observations not seen on a regular basis amonsgt all the equipment fetishism and engineering hype displayed on the internet hobby forums.

Re: Thoughts [message #2862 is a reply to message #2858] Sat, 25 March 2006 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob Brines is currently offline  Bob Brines
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Registered: May 2009
Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
Master
My pessimistic assessment is that the huge amounts spent on accessories is pure elitism. People spend kilobucks on cables because they can. Why would anyone in their right mind buy a Mercedes S class? Because it is the most expensive sedan out there?

Americans in particular seem to fall into two categories: Those with unlimited means who buy the most expensive items available regardlessly of quality or functionality, and those of limited means who buy the least expensive items available regardless of quality or functionality. Why is there Wal-Mart? Why is there no manufacturing in the USA?

This kills the good but moderately priced market in any category. A $1000 two channel amp is becoming very hard to find, and those of us out in the weeds will have to mail order it. Fortunately the current crop of cheap HT receivers, particularly the digital ones are becoming very good. But I digress....

Don't get me wrong here. If done right and for the right reasons, dollars can equal quality. But I don't think that this was your point of departure. I think you meant the you are amused at people spending huge amounts for money of parts that don't make much difference. My answer is pure elitism.

Bob


Re: Thoughts [message #2863 is a reply to message #2862] Sat, 25 March 2006 08:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Thats a small percentage of what I mean't by the post. What motivated me to write was the revelation I felt upon reading MS. Gedde's assesment of the behaviours she witnessed at the RMAF. Regardless of how we; meaning myself, yourself and most of the rest of the audio community examine the audio landscape; we don't have an outsiders perspective. She provided that for me at least and I found it extremely interesting to see.
And what I found surprising is the several essays I read within the last week that had points of view that you don't normally see explained in audio sites. Ms Geddes;Mr. Broskie and Mr Simon all offered up some perspectives that are uniquely different from the standard fare we see so I thought to comment and maybe generate some interest in alternative points of view.
They are well written examinations of the hobby that are enjoyable to read. Short and to the point but definately food for thought.

As for your point I agree with that analysis. At this point in my life I am surrounded by newly minted real estate wealth transformed into material goods; and to be truthfull it gets redundant listening to folks drone on and on regarding the supposed meritts of all this consumer largesse. I don't know if you find that to be true but I am in the strange position of defending high end audio to people who drive and own exactly the things you mention; while I get into my 1993 Buick Roadmaster and turn on my old Altecs with my 27" TV.
As I age I find less and less motivation to own things. I am more interested in learning how the world works.

Thanks for the thoughtfull reply.

Re: Thoughts [message #2865 is a reply to message #2858] Sat, 25 March 2006 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shane is currently offline  Shane
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
This reply pertains more to the discussion in the Tower on Mr. Broskie's thoughts, although I agree most definitely with your "perceptions".

In your discussions about ratios of money spent between equipment and media, it was suggested that it is very reasonable and appropriate to spend at least half of the cost of your system on media. I was trying to explain to my wife today that since I only have about $1000 in my system at this point, but well over 200 CD's (and I've gotten rid of that many in the last year or so and I've started collecting vinyl for a future TT/pre), that I really need to upgrade my equipment so I can possibly attain audiophile status. She replied with a "I don't think so". So what's the proper way to sneak the upgrade? I sure as hell ain't spending $600 on cables. I'm trying the DIY tube amp route because it's easier to get the parts a bit at a time

Re: Thoughts [message #2866 is a reply to message #2865] Sat, 25 March 2006 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Easy, here's how; have the parts sent to your friends address then bury the boxes and destroy the reciepts. Start an offshore account in the Cayman Islands and slowly drain the families budget so as not to arouse suspician. Then when they find out there is no money left and your wifes lawyer sends that divorce letter along with her demands for equitable distribution; they won't be able to touch the account and you can show your new expensive stereo to your kids when they visit you in that studio apartment over the bodega for their mandatory visitation week in the summer.

Funny! [message #2868 is a reply to message #2866] Sat, 25 March 2006 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shane is currently offline  Shane
Messages: 1117
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
That's pretty damn funny!!!!!! I've had too many singleminded hobbies over the years to surprise the wife. She just shrugs, accuses me of becoming my grandfather who was an incessant tinkerer, and tells me to please not spend any more money than I can afford to. Pretty understanding all in all.

I can't wait to go to GPAF to meet some of you and hear some good setups!

Re: Thoughts [message #2869 is a reply to message #2863] Sat, 25 March 2006 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lon is currently offline  lon
Messages: 760
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
The speculation just occurred to me on a study which needs to be
done:

What is the percentage of functionally tone deaf individuals
involved in the audiophile and speaker building hobbies?

Men lose of their hearing after 40 IIRC so isn't a lot
of this just chasing a chimera?


I think that to separate out the tone deaf from the
audially acute, everyone that raises an opinion on the
brightness of this or the boominess of that ought to have
a professional audiologist test and that test posted in
his signature-- like people do with their system builds.

I'm pretty confident that another speculation of mine
is correct and that is as a previous discussion included, a
large amount of listening to radio-- AM or FM, it doesn't matter--
will influence how you hear the human voice. So the effort
will be made in the design concept to mimic the compressions,
echoic effects and other audio enhancements that one hears
on the radio or tv.


It is really unfortunate that women don't take an interest
in these forums but the reason for that and rightly so to a large
degree is that they are about piffle. It's a form vs. content
thing which is another discussion the beginning of which starts with the question: Do you do this because you can't play an instrument?


I will cop to a bit of that myself.





Re: Funny! [message #2870 is a reply to message #2868] Sun, 26 March 2006 07:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Yeah; wives are o'kay; they treat us like one of the kids.

Re: Thoughts [message #2871 is a reply to message #2869] Sun, 26 March 2006 07:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Lon; what the heck is piffle?
Also a lot of the people on this forum actually do play instruments.

The hearing thing; even though you are older and cannot hear frequencies above 12k can you still tell live music from recordings?

Re: Thoughts [message #2872 is a reply to message #2865] Sun, 26 March 2006 07:49 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
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Location: NE Arkansas
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Surprised she didn't suggest getting rid of some of the CDs

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