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CDs on BluRay and DVD players [message #71249]

Tue, 07 February 2012 02:54

FloydV
Messages: 124
Registered: November 2011
Location: Boise, ID

Master

I'll try to keep this short. I have a 5 year old Sony BR player that I have been using to play CDs. The problem I have with that is that the TV insists on turning on when the DVD player is on. That runs a 300 watt lamp to show tracks. If I turn off the BR it turns off the TV, and if I turn off the TV, it turns off the BR. Very aggravating.

It's been a long time since I had a dedicated CD player, so I connected a 10 year old Yamaha DVD player to the CD input on my Pioneer Receiver. That bypasses the TV on problem.

However, I noticed that the old Yamaha DVD (red laser) player sounds noticeably different from the BR player when playing CDs.
A lot of the harshness from the BR player disappears, the bass increases, and the overall effect is more desirable.

I can't decide which is more accurate because I have no frame of reference. So, it seems people do use discrete CD players and they don't seem to cost that much. Can you give me some good but middle range price CD players to try?

I'm not paying McIntosh $5K for a cd player, but I don't know what to pick from. I know I don't want anything Sony. The BR is a Sony BDP-s500 which is about 5 years old, and the Yamaha is about ten years old (and is a standard DVD player).

Short of a "good" CD player recommendation, I'm shooting in the dark. My Pioneer Rec has optial and cable digital inputs (as do the Yamaha outputs. I guess I'm asking for something that is not to hot and not too cold, but just right. Really just looking for a player that a lot of people like. I certainly don't need to be using up a 300 watt projector bulb for hours to display the track that is playing.

I can't find anyway to stop the interaction between the TV and the BR. If I turn off the TV, it turns the BR off. If I turn on the BR, it turns the TV on. I can't find an option to stop this, except pulling the HDMI out of the BR player which is using a separate cable to the Pioneer Rec for sound.

Now, I'm not sure that it is a good idea to use a HD player for CDs at all.

Whatever you can recommend would be appreciated.

Floyd

He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. -- Albert Einstein

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Re: CDs on BluRay and DVD players [message #71253 is a reply to message #71249]

Tue, 07 February 2012 08:53

gofar99
Messages: 1955
Registered: May 2010
Location: Southern Arizona

Illuminati (5th Degree)

Hi, I suspect there is some way to get the player to not turn on the TV, but it still sidesteps the issue that it is probably not up to current levels of performance. I have two players. The main one in my audio system is an OPPO 83SE. (the SE part is key) This is a blue ray one and the factory upgraded the audio. It is excellent at both audio and video. There are a few other high end variations of the player, but generally avoid the standard version. The newest model (this one is 2 years old) is supposed to be even better. They run just under $1K. My back up is a Marantz CD5001. It only does CDs. Quite nice as well and the newer models I understand do play some of the other CD based media. You should be able to get the newer ones for under $400.

I am sure other folk will have some thoughts on this as well.

Good Listening
Bruce

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Re: CDs on BluRay and DVD players [message #71254 is a reply to message #71253]

Tue, 07 February 2012 10:26

FloydV
Messages: 124
Registered: November 2011
Location: Boise, ID

Master

Thanks for the help! I suspect the Yamaha is losing some information, and that the Blu-ray never got much attention to its CD role.

Floyd

He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. -- Albert Einstein

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Re: CDs on BluRay and DVD players [message #71255 is a reply to message #71254]

Tue, 07 February 2012 10:53

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I have found the high-end BluRay players are hands down better sounding than the best CD players. I'm even comparing with the uber expensive CD players from niche companies. This is certainly true when BluRay audio is used for source material, although there aren't many selections out there yet. The list is growing though.

I have both an Audio Note CD2.1x CD player and a Denon 3800BCDI BluRay player, by the way. The Audio Note player is really nice, well built, has tube output and uses good components throughout. It costs about $3500 new. The Denon player was the first audiophile BluRay player, and also uses good components throughout. It cost $2000 new. Both are very high quality units, but as much as the Audio Note goes the distance to make CDs sound as good as possible, it's just not as good a media as BluRay. Once you put a BluRay disk in the Denon, it sounds night and day better.

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Re: CDs on BluRay and DVD players [message #71258 is a reply to message #71255]

Tue, 07 February 2012 12:11

FloydV
Messages: 124
Registered: November 2011
Location: Boise, ID

Master

Thanks, Wayne

I was wondering if Blu-ray might not be a better source for CDs than red laser, but I wasn't sure. Not necessarily the small beam of a blue/violet laser, but all the processing capability that has to be included to play BR.

The Sony BR I have is one of the first that was on the market. It looks huge compared to the new BR players I see now, and it cost $650. Now I've seen good brands for half that, that are about half the size.

I have to ask what is all the fuss about tube amplifiers? If you looked at a square wave on an o-scope made by a tube, it wouldn't be very square. I know people don't listen to square waves, but I can't hear any difference between good transistor amps and tube amps. I do remember that tubes are prone to hum, and that they drift off spec as they age. The first analog computers were a failure because the tubes drifted with age. Just curious.

With the Yamaha DVD player, your Three Pi speakers sound excellent in straight stereo and Pioneer's standard movie mode, which uses the center channel and a little ambiance from the surrounds. With the BR, stereo doesn't sound quite as good.

I think I'll probably opt for a new BR player. It would be an upgrade to movies as well as music. I really want 6.x music discs to take off. They are awesome.

Floyd

He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. -- Albert Einstein

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Re: CDs on BluRay and DVD players [message #71260 is a reply to message #71258]

Tue, 07 February 2012 12:34

gofar99
Messages: 1955
Registered: May 2010
Location: Southern Arizona

Illuminati (5th Degree)

Hi, What a can of worms that opens (about tube amps). Much of what you said was true in the past. The newer designs are very different. The issue with square waves is to some extent still true as virtually all tube amps use output transformers. However the linearity on more common musical signals is quite excellent. I can easily get response within 0.1db from below 20HZ to as far up as I choose (usually about 40-50K HZ). Distortion at normal levels is well below 1% (often in the 0.1% and lower range)and hum and noise at about -85-95 db. That is well below audible. Tube life in well designed gear is now a lot longer than most folks will ever need. The remaining issues are more a matter of preference. Tube and SS equipment sound different. There has been considerable discussion for years as why and which is better. Much of which I consider irrelevant. One thing for sure, if tube equipment was inferior, then all the mega dollar stuff would not exist. I own a lot of premium SS gear and tube gear. My preference is for the tube sound. To be fair I may be a bit prejudiced as I design high performance tube equipment. You really owe it to yourself to seek out a quality hi-fi store and listen to some of the newer tube gear. You may well be surprised at the sound.

Good Listening
Bruce

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Re: CDs on BluRay and DVD players [message #71261 is a reply to message #71260]

Tue, 07 February 2012 13:06

FloydV
Messages: 124
Registered: November 2011
Location: Boise, ID

Master

You're probably right. I haven't heard a tube amp in years. I do know that transistor amps are much more finicky about impedance dropping too low.

I have an older Pioneer Elite that is 120 x 7 @ 8 ohms. That is not RMS, it is some kind of average power (and I think it is a bit of a marketing ruse). The receiver is an excellent one though. It will put out more distortion free volume than I can stand.

But, if the impedance drops a hair below 6 ohms, it trips a breaker. Four ohm speakers won't fly with it.

I'm on the other side of vinyl too. The dynamic range available in digital format, which had become the holy grail, isn't there on vinyl. And bass that would throw the best stylus right out of a groove is a digital plus. And the surface noise no matter how well I took care of records!

I threw out an expensive Thorens turntable and a very expensive Stanton cartridge along with a bunch of vinyl. The best vinyl I replaced with CDs.

There was a period when recording engineers didn't get transferring analog to digital very well. Those CDs were edgy and overly bright. Most stuff today is digital master to CD.

My CD of Pink Floyd's The Wall is one of the best technically dead-on recordings I've heard. Much better than the vinyl it replaced. It must be close to twenty years old and sounds just like the day I bought it.

I appreciate other opinions though. I learn a lot that way.

I'm hoping for 6.x discs to catch on some day. Although people settling for .mp3 files doesn't bode well.

Floyd

He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. -- Albert Einstein

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Re: CDs on BluRay and DVD players [message #71264 is a reply to message #71261]

Tue, 07 February 2012 17:10

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Here's a nice little booklet about tubes:

A Taste of Tubes

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Re: CDs on BluRay and DVD players [message #71270 is a reply to message #71264]

Tue, 07 February 2012 17:35

gofar99
Messages: 1955
Registered: May 2010
Location: Southern Arizona

Illuminati (5th Degree)

Hi, Looks interesting, I'll read it later.

Too bad about your experience with vinyl. It too has gotten a lot better. With my present system, you probably can't tell by listening whether a CD or LP is playing.

I use one of two turntables a Pro-ject and a vintage Dual 701. Cartridges are main one Dynavector 10X5 with a Soundsmith ruby cantilever, a Grado Reference Platinium I, and back up is a Denon DL110. A Benz Micro is on route now to round them out. They all feed an all tube phono preamp and line stage of my own design (for Oddwatt Audio) driving a pair of KT120 mono blocks, also my design for OWA. The speakers are Martin Logan Vista ESLs, I do use a SS 24 db/octave electronic crossover by Marchand that taps into the speakers and is set for 50 HZ. It drives another pair of my mono blocks with KT88s (the subs are really efficient). For subs I have 15 inchers in 7.5 cubic foot vented cabinets. The F3 on them is 18HZ.

I have not found the CDs to be any better in the bass area than the LPs. Actually a number of the CD remakes as you noted are rather dismal and not only the sound, but overall response are worse than the LPs they are supposed to replace.

Yes, I will agree that if you don't take care of the LPs they will get dinged and the noise level can suffer. That was a huge selling point for CDs. However as much as I like what I have, I fully expect down loaded digital to replace nearly everything in a few years. It is already killing CDs and when everyone catches on to the HQ / Hirez stuff on line, it will be a no brainer for serious audiophiles. Check out the past few issues of Absolute Sound. They have turned a corner and now also support and believe in digital music.

Good Listening
Bruce

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Re: CDs on BluRay and DVD players [message #71271 is a reply to message #71270]

Tue, 07 February 2012 18:10

FloydV
Messages: 124
Registered: November 2011
Location: Boise, ID

Master

I remember having a Dual turntable, probably one of the first they ever made. It was awesome compared to the junk available then. I think they had an ad showing the table at a 45 degree angle and still playing. Long time ago.

My plan is to build a server with about 16 terabytes of capacity for video and audio. I didn't realize that high rez music was available. The stuff I'm familiar with is the mp3, wmv, etc. files that people seem content to load onto players that have ear buds. Those files make CDs sound like gold by comparison.

Can you give me a site address that has real high def music?

My thought on video and audio is to rip BR and downloaded files to a server. Why collect a thousand discs and store them when you can have it instantly available at the touch of a button and be able to organize them into a database that can be searched in many ways.

I'll bet we are on a similar path.

Thanks for the conversation.

Floyd

He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. -- Albert Einstein

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