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Detainee Treatment Rules [message #54532] Thu, 06 October 2005 13:43 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Wheew; thank god the Senate came to their senses and passed that set of rules returning our policy back to reality. It sickened the whole world including myself and all rational people to think we as a nation would condone torture. Disregard the fact that it doesn't work; it really is disgusting to think our country condoned it even for a short time.
We can restore a little pride again.
Funny how it's the ones who ducked their service that promoted it.

Bush will VETO it. As he should. (NT) [message #54533 is a reply to message #54532] Thu, 06 October 2005 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
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Illuminati (1st Degree)
NT

Re: Now how did I know you would support totureing people [message #54534 is a reply to message #54533] Thu, 06 October 2005 19:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
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Illuminati (13th Degree)
Nt

Now how did I know you would support the terrorists? (NT) [message #54535 is a reply to message #54534] Thu, 06 October 2005 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
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NT

Re:I have to say Mr Vinyl is a man; not a bail-out [message #54536 is a reply to message #54535] Thu, 06 October 2005 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
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Mr V; short break in hostilities. I must say this; there are people who post on this site who behave like small children; they initiate a post as if they are serious individuals but then when you reply with respect they insult you and run away. You stick to your guns and for that I respect you regardless of how you insulted me with the clueless remark. Before we resume hostilities let me commend you on standing your ground like a man instead of slinking away like a weasal.

So; let the games resume.
I don't support terrorists; so how has torturing people we suspect of being terrorists helped our cause?

Re:I have to say Mr Vinyl is a man; not a bail-out [message #54537 is a reply to message #54536] Thu, 06 October 2005 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Well, first let me say that my clueless remarks were made under the influence of alcohol. And by the way it was also kind of a joke. I was trying to emulate a line from the movie Animal house. However you come on and post some very inflammatory things. It can be quite infuriating. I do apologize for the rudeness of some of my remarks.

Now to the case at point. I don't believe what amounts to college pranks rises to torture. However even if we did cross the line this is serious stuff ok? These people want to kill as many Americans as possible. I don't give a rats butt whether they are comfortable in jail. If it takes actual torture to find out where Saddam is hiding or what hole Bin Laden is cowering in then so be it. If it takes torture to find out about a plot to bomb a train station or a plot to fly planes into buildings then so be it. I think that most Americans are for whatever it takes to secure the freedom and safety of America. I believe your hatred of Bush is clouding your thoughts. I don't believe you understand the importance of winning this war. This is not about your party winning back the presidency. This is about the future of our country and the safty of our people and children. Forget your hatred of Bush and think about what's important.

Look at what we are up against. Remember nobody at Gitmo ever cut off someone's head. So they cut off innocent people's heads and we made them stay up late. Yeah that's torture.

I believe Bush has done a great job so far in defending our country. He would do an even better job if the liberals would stop coddling the terrorists and start backing America.

Re:I have to say Mr Vinyl is a man; not a bail-out [message #54538 is a reply to message #54537] Thu, 06 October 2005 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)

I agree and disagree with both of you. In respect to prisoners; they have no rights. They gave up all their rights when they commit crimes against the rule of our land. We need to stop trying to get other countries to live by our laws too. Just like if they don’t like ours they should go someplace else, we should abide by what laws other small countries have. Don’t want to get caned? Don’t piss them off. Don’t want to go to jail for smoking dope? Smoke in your own backyard. Torture? Is it not torture alone to watch the news and see what terrorist and criminals do to everyday society...

Bush isn't doing a good job. He doesn’t have any good ideas and he can’t even put good advice to use. I would just assume see a good republican administration, but this one isn’t it. Just my opinion and it looks like the country is 50/50 on this one too.

A born again supreme justice? Wow...

You guys make it enjoyable to chat and bitch about current affairs. Always better to hash on stuff with other opinions than your own. It strengthens your opinions or changes them. either way life moves ahead another day.


Re:I have to say Mr Vinyl is a man; not a bail-out [message #54539 is a reply to message #54538] Fri, 07 October 2005 05:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Hi,

I mostly agree with what you are saying. You'll have to be a little more specific about what Bush is doing wrong before I can debate you on his actions. I believe many good things have happened in Iraq and Afghanistan that the media just isn't reporting. Bush has had to deal with a lot of stuff since being President. Tough decisions had to be made. Mistakes are bound to happen. I'm not a Bush apologist but I don't think he is getting a fair shake sometimes.

I agree with you about Bush's supreme court appointees. I am not happy with either. But no matter who he picked the press and liberals would be all over him. Oh and I don't think she is a Borne again? What about Ginsburg? She is just as ridicules as anyone Bush has appointed but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.

Re:I have to say Mr Vinyl is a man; not a bail-out [message #54542 is a reply to message #54539] Fri, 07 October 2005 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I'm afraid I have to agree to disagree on this one with both of you guys. A prisoner does not give up his rights because all crimes are not of equal seriousness. Would you use the same methods of force and discipline against a guy in Jail for falling behind in paying his taxes as you would for a child murderer? If the BTK killer should be treated the same as a guy who got caught with a roach in his cars ashtray?
The law makes exception for the serious nature of crimes by assigning different punishments and we have to do the same. Don't forget; none of the prisoners in Guantanmo have been charged. So which one of those guys was picked up by mistake and now is being tortured.
Listen; read some of the literature. The guys responsible for implementing the torture policies do not like them because they don't work. It gets people to tell incorrect information while under duress; they will give up the brother-in-law they hate they will say anything to relieve the pain and that information is never reliable.
Let the pro's handle this; to a man they all say you get people to co-operate by brains not brawn.
Secondly to be considered a civilised country you can't torture people. You just can't do it and still be a civilised nation; with torture you are nothing better than a totalitarian state.
Bush came into office with an agenda to do three things/eliminate entitlements from the economy for the poor and middle class while keeping them in place for the rich. To secure the oil-fields in the middle east for American interests by force. To put in place a method to control the population so the business interests could operate without restrictions; ie, removing personal rights/removing environmental restrictions/ and enabling all of government police powers to operate without any control or oversight by the citizens.
Sorry but that is his mandate from the wealthy and powerfull who put him in office.

Re:I have to say Mr Vinyl is a man; not a bail-out [message #54545 is a reply to message #54542] Fri, 07 October 2005 08:09 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)

Yes indeed. If you don't pay your taxes you should sit in the cell right next to charles manson for all I care. I pay a whole in taxes. I don’t like it one bit and I think there is a lot pork and a lot of people who take advantage of the system that taxes fund. If I don’t like the US tax structure to the point of not paying, I can leave this country and pick another country more to my liking. But, as long as I live here I am obliged to pay the rules we live by.
The prison system I see today is way to lenient. The dollar figures to house a prisoner for life is just staggering. More money than some people earn. Lets see some more work load from the incarcerated.
If you think its unfair, immoral or unjust. Don’t commit crimes and be sent to jail. More accountability, more deterrent. If you want to say less rights, less frills and poorer treatment wont be a deterrent I say your wrong, but, at the very least it will cost you less money to fund the prison system and that will be more money that stays in your pocket that you worked hard for and wont have to give up to people who break your rules. What about drunk drivers? shit, I like to have a few boat drinks, but if I’m stupid enough to drive home and be caught I'm going to have to sit next to the BTK killer for a while.


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