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Re: Can't reproduce a square wave [message #14548 is a reply to message #14547] Thu, 18 March 2004 12:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18695
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Agreed. If the box is sealed then pressure will rise as volume is decreased by the woofer. But if the woofer is driving open air, then a change in volume doesn't mean much. Speakers are a constant displacement pump. We'd need a constant volume pump to do the low frequency square wave thing we're talking about here, and I'm not sure we would want a pump like that for sound reproduction.

It's kinda cool to think about though. To change atmospheric pressure in an open space requires a constant flow of a large volume of air, which requires a different kind of system. The larger the space, the more volume required of the pump. This is the kind of thing important to engineers setting up cabin pressurization systems, 'cause their systems must modulate the amount of pressure to compensate for altitude. Neat stuff.

Re: Kinda reproducing a square wave [message #14549 is a reply to message #14546] Thu, 18 March 2004 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18695
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Certainly, there is the issue of slew rate and overring. I would suggest an acceptable limit of minimum slew rate and maxiumum overring. If we were to quantify the issue, it would remove ambiguity.

I agree that no perfect square wave is possible, and that is a mathematical curiosity since a perfect sine wave is realizable. The perfect square wave isn't possible because of the fact harmonics content would have to be infinite.

But if we set limits, say slew rate less than 10µS and overring less than 0.1%, then we can discuss a realizable square wave. And I think that is realistic. That at least puts us in the realm of possibility, and I would argue that a square wave having 10µS rise/fall time and less than 0.1% overrring would sound absolutely perfect. It's a great goal. That then leaves us with the other issues to discuss.

We won't have much trouble finding signal generators and amplifiers capable of square waves with 10µS rise/fall time and less than 0.1% overrring, but we'll have a hell of a time finding electro-mechanical devices that can do it and an almost certainty of inability to find electro-mechanico-acoustic devices that can generate this waveform between 20Hz and 20kHz.

Okay, thanks [message #14553 is a reply to message #14546] Fri, 19 March 2004 06:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dean Kukral is currently offline  Dean Kukral
Messages: 177
Registered: May 2009
Master
My original post asked for definitions, and this gives them, so it brings the discussion into perspective.

Obviously, an acoustic square wave is a discontinuity in pressure, which no speaker (piston) can produce.

As I see it, you are saying that the trained eye can readily detect speaker anomolies by examing the smearing at the transition areas in the measured output of the speakers when fed the proper signal. (I am a little fuzzy on how a triangle was related to "reproducing a square wave," however.)

Interesting. I'll buy that, but leave the discussion of what that means acoustically to others. ;)

Thanks.

Off topic - Air compression linearity [message #14572 is a reply to message #14541] Thu, 01 April 2004 05:16 Go to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18695
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Hey, Tom - What do you make of this? Do you have any references for research data that shows the onset of air compression non-linearity?

I assumed it must be somewhere between 1.5 and 2 atmospheres for a sinusoidal piston motion that creates alternating compression and rarefaction. I also would guess that plenums, vents and other resonant chambers would have certain frequencies where they were more sensitive due to resonant conditions. At frequencies where a vent or plenum is resonanting, we'll get a ram-charge effect where critical pressures are reached at lower piston excursions.

But putting resonance aside, I wonder where air rarefaction/compression starts becoming noticably asymmetrical, causing non-linear distortion. Kinda thought you might know a reference or two.

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