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Re: Ukraine [message #97026 is a reply to message #97025] Mon, 25 September 2023 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18787
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

The article linked in your previous post describes the Russian situation in the 1990s pretty well.

You might want to read that article again. It says exactly the same thing I've said here in this thread. It describes the novi russkiy, the attempts to privatize by vouchers and the beginnings of the problem that we see now.

We had very little to do with it. I wish we had done more to help the situation back then when it would have been more manageable.

There was one big event that happened back then where the West was involved. Well, not so much involved, more like made aware. When Ukraine agreed to release its Soviet era nuclear weapons in 1994, it did so with an agreement from Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States to provide Ukraine with security assurances in connection with its willingness to sign a non-proliferation treaty as a non-nuclear weapon state. The four parties signed the agreement at that time. But that's about all that happened back then. Nothing concrete was put in place to set actionable consequences for that agreement.

But other than that, there really was almost nothing happening. If there had been large-scale Western influence in the 1990s, it would have been visible. Western influence is only visible now because it's happening now. It wasn't visible in the 1990s because there wasn't anything to see back then.

What you could see back in the 1990s was attempts at influence from darker forces in Russia. Sometimes, the Ukrainian president or a mayor of a large city would be poisoned. This was common if a pro-Western official was elected. So even fairly early on, this kind of stuff was happening. It was sort of like what we saw in Chechnya, but bigger.

The West did nothing about it until very recently. Maybe that's 'cause we didn't need to do anything, I don't know. But still, there were no big pushes to bring Ukraine into NATO or anything like that. There was no economic planning or financial infusions of some sort from the West, other than individual efforts from private businessmen. I personally wish there had been but could clearly see that there was not. Not until recently.

Honestly, I am kind of proud that the United States and Britain as well as other European nations have stepped up to the plate to honor that non-proliferation agreement. I don't think we had really done much 'til now, but now that Putin has stepped off the deep end, I'm glad he's getting push-back from us and the rest of the world.

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