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Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #93129 is a reply to message #93128]

Mon, 15 February 2021 15:23

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18787
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Oh heck no, my friend! Please don't think I want you to stop writing on this subject or others!

I just thought I'd chime-in to your thread, both because I wanted you to know I was reading your posts and also because I wanted to say what I thought.

To be honest, I've always been intuitively laissez-faire minded. I'm a libertarian at heart. But I have studied Keynes a little bit, and I've also studied America from the times of the robber-barons forward.

As an aside - I say "studied" but what I mean more is that I enjoy watching documentaries and chatting with buddies of mine that are history majors with advanced postgraduate degrees. One such friend of mine comes over every week (even during this corona-weirdness) and we visit together for hours. So I guess maybe I should say I have pondered more than I have "studied" but at least I've pondered together with folks that are educated in the subject. I'm mostly a techie-geek, but I am interested in history and economics and the ups-and-downs of cultures over time.

Anyway, my point is that while I'm generally pretty fiscally conservative, I do see that things like Keynes described - things like stimulating the economy with spending on infrastructure, research science and technology - is beneficial both for a stalled economy and for the natural utility it brings. So it's a win-win, for example, when we build and improve roads, especially when the spending is done in times of economic hardship.

This does imply that we take on some debt to create those things. I suppose the road-building could be done by a state that had a budget surplus, but the way Keynes described it was to take on some debt to build the roads. I agree with that because it makes sense to me. It's like buying a car on credit, and then using the car to get to your job.

What I fear, though, is the country can get too spendy, and instead of building roads, we build all sorts of other silly things that are wasteful spending. That kind of debt is no good. It's like a kid getting their first credit card and going hog-wild buying everything and then finding themselves strapped with debt and no way to pay it down.

Right now, today, our national debt is $27 trillion. Our population is 330 million, so that's roughly $82K per person. Of course, at least half of our population doesn't work - children and elderly - so our workforce is probably half the population, around 165 million. That means each of us that are working would have to pay about $165K to pay off the national debt.

I know these are oversimplifications and that macro-economics are different than balancing the family budget. But I still worry that once we get too far in debt, the world will no longer see the American dollar as the reference standard. This is especially true if we print more money to pay debts to other countries.

I personally think that even macro-economics can't get past that basic "common sense" matter of trust: If you get too far in debt, you lose your ability to pay it down. And if you are perceived as less able to pay your debt, your credit rating goes down. People lose trust in your economy.

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[Message index]

		Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 03 September 2018 14:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Kingfish on Mon, 03 September 2018 14:56
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 09 September 2018 11:23
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Tue, 11 September 2018 16:43
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 12 September 2018 10:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 17 February 2019 18:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Kingfish on Wed, 01 May 2019 11:04
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 01 May 2019 14:45
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Kingfish on Sun, 12 May 2019 15:37
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 13 May 2019 09:56
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 13 May 2019 10:28
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Newjack on Mon, 13 May 2019 23:24
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 14 May 2019 09:57
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 07 June 2019 10:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 25 March 2020 19:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 04 April 2020 09:58
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Sat, 11 April 2020 13:05
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 April 2020 15:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Sat, 11 April 2020 16:14
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 April 2020 17:23
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Sat, 11 April 2020 17:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 April 2020 19:19
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 13 April 2020 11:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Mon, 13 April 2020 16:00
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 13 April 2020 17:03
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Wed, 15 April 2020 11:48
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 15 April 2020 14:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 19 April 2020 11:36
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 19 August 2020 10:08
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 10 October 2020 09:07
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 29 December 2020 11:22
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 27 January 2021 11:42
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 15 February 2021 10:21
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Mon, 15 February 2021 11:58
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 15 February 2021 14:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Mon, 15 February 2021 15:23
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 15 February 2021 17:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 16 February 2021 11:57
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 17 February 2021 10:52
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 20 February 2021 10:53
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 22 February 2021 09:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 23 February 2021 11:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 28 February 2021 10:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 16 March 2021 12:26
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 17 March 2021 17:49
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 17 April 2021 11:10
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Sat, 17 April 2021 11:24
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 17 April 2021 18:32
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 29 April 2021 13:53
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 05 May 2021 09:07
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Wed, 05 May 2021 11:04
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 05 May 2021 14:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 07 May 2021 10:20
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 14 May 2021 11:38
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 25 May 2021 12:30
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 28 May 2021 18:15
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 31 May 2021 11:43
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 16 June 2021 08:54
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 21 June 2021 08:07
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 14 July 2021 12:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 15 July 2021 10:07
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 15 July 2021 11:22
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 15 July 2021 13:03
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 15 July 2021 14:41
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 15 July 2021 16:07
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 15 July 2021 17:44
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 16 July 2021 09:50
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 21 July 2021 17:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 27 July 2021 16:16
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 18 August 2021 10:24
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Wed, 18 August 2021 12:59
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 19 August 2021 14:37
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 20 August 2021 14:54
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 31 August 2021 09:38
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Tue, 31 August 2021 21:54
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 01 September 2021 10:05
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 04 September 2021 09:46
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Sat, 04 September 2021 21:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 05 September 2021 07:20
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Sun, 05 September 2021 08:36
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 12 September 2021 09:50
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Sun, 12 September 2021 20:39
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 13 September 2021 09:27
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 15 September 2021 10:41
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 25 September 2021 13:08
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 06 October 2021 11:08
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 19 October 2021 09:44
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 23 October 2021 12:02
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 23 October 2021 16:43
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 30 October 2021 13:26
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 07 November 2021 08:57
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 08 November 2021 15:18
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 22 November 2021 10:01
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 08 December 2021 19:30
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 09 December 2021 09:22
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 09 December 2021 12:01
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 09 December 2021 13:38
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 09 December 2021 18:28
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Fri, 10 December 2021 20:31
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 December 2021 08:56
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 12 December 2021 10:03
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 04 January 2022 12:33
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 13 January 2022 11:41
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 01 February 2022 12:04
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 08 February 2022 11:00
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 09 February 2022 11:18
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 19 February 2022 17:32
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 28 February 2022 13:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 15 March 2022 14:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 24 March 2022 11:23
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 01 April 2022 21:42
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 21 April 2022 14:17
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 16 May 2022 10:33
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 05 June 2022 11:43
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Sun, 05 June 2022 18:38
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 06 June 2022 10:35
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 12 June 2022 09:32
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 22 June 2022 10:55
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 03 July 2022 11:41
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 12 July 2022 11:31
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 12 July 2022 12:03
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 12 July 2022 17:50
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 12 July 2022 18:27
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 13 July 2022 10:17
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 14 July 2022 07:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 14 July 2022 11:15
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 02 August 2022 12:21
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 28 August 2022 13:06
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 05 September 2022 11:59
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 17 September 2022 08:32
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 28 September 2022 11:48
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 11 October 2022 12:58
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 14 October 2022 12:05
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 02 November 2022 11:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 16 November 2022 18:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 11 December 2022 12:20
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 12 December 2022 19:31
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 06 January 2023 10:18
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 10 January 2023 10:19
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 10 January 2023 15:24
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 10 January 2023 17:21
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 24 January 2023 11:10
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 27 January 2023 10:20
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 30 January 2023 12:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 February 2023 08:58
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 14 February 2023 11:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 15 March 2023 12:05
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 19 March 2023 13:46
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Sun, 19 March 2023 18:27
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 20 March 2023 07:46
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 21 March 2023 11:31
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 21 March 2023 13:15
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 21 March 2023 17:16
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 22 March 2023 07:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 24 March 2023 12:01
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 07 April 2023 10:55
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 07 May 2023 07:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 21 May 2023 18:48
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 25 May 2023 10:36
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 01 June 2023 10:17
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 01 June 2023 18:00
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 02 June 2023 06:37
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 08 June 2023 12:19
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 09 June 2023 15:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 10 June 2023 07:55
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 06 July 2023 10:27
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 09 July 2023 08:51
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 10 July 2023 12:57
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 23 July 2023 09:54
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 26 July 2023 10:08
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 05 August 2023 11:20
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 12 August 2023 18:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 13 August 2023 08:49
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 12 September 2023 06:37
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 19 September 2023 12:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 27 September 2023 14:35
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 30 September 2023 11:01
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 15 October 2023 09:15
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 23 October 2023 09:04
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Mon, 23 October 2023 09:50
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 23 October 2023 11:43
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 26 October 2023 09:14
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 November 2023 07:41
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 23 November 2023 10:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 27 January 2024 08:52
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 11 February 2024 19:34
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		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 19 June 2024 10:30
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		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 02 July 2024 11:15
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