As I said I cannot cooberate Welti's study, so that leaves me with some doubt. Its natural I guess to believe in your own study and doubt the other guys, but the fact remains that I did not get the same results he did. Todd and I did tend to agree on the random placement, but we did not tend to agree on the symmetric placement. So what has been cooberated is the random placement and, to me, what is in doubt are the symmetrical placements.