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| Re: DOS 2 history (ping: Wayne) [message #99760 is a reply to message #99755] |
Thu, 03 September 2026 12:19   |
grindstone
Messages: 61
Registered: May 2010
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Viscount |
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Wow Bruce you were in the rarefied air with that setup -- I bow to your superiority.
And I know that time softens the rearview mirror perspective, but...there was something cool about it all being so new and everyone making their way and...the excitement of finding someone else diving-in, too. Simpler times, for sure, and with plenty of pain/work/learning, but somehow "cleaner" than now.
Just wistful, maybe.
Used CP/M only a few times. Stuff is blurry in there (perhaps not entirely free of misspent youth). But I read a lot of manuals for a lot of stuff and for me. Kept AT machines until early 2000's, though 
It's just...I mean, we ran factory floors from 286's (SCO!) full of serial cards fer gawdsake, but it takes a gig for a browser w/ not too-bad j-script crap to load a page anymore...sigh (and stay off my lawn!).
It's cool to me that it was Paul Allen arguing for progress and reason (and that a piece of IBM, as always, was opposing The Right Thing (tm)) like clockwork.
Cool to hear of your continued curiosity to Tinker, Wayne! Love it (and miss seeing it as much in our contemporaries--hope its only me).
Thanks for indulging me.
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| Re: DOS 2 history (ping: Wayne) [message #99763 is a reply to message #99762] |
Thu, 03 September 2026 21:45 |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 19092
Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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You guys are my kinda guys. That's cool stuff! Both of you!
Check this out. It's too retro for the metro.
Back when the Altair 8800 was sold, there was literally no such thing as a full screen editor. No micros had 'em, not even any minicomputers had them. For about $10,000 (in 1970s dollars) you could buy a dedicated word processor but you literally couldn't edit a file on your million-dollar minicomputer or mainframe. People used line editors instead.
Screen editors weren't made 'til the very late 1970s and weren't popular until microcomputers used memory-mapped displays. So most systems had no screen editor.
When full-screen editors and word-processors hit the scene, they were all the rage. People called that kind of user-interface WYSIWYG (pronounced wizzy-wig) which stood for "what you see is what you get." Remember that, guys?!!
There were many reasons that full screen editors weren't available. For one thing, even the most minimal full-screen editor needs about 32Kb. Lots of code to make it all happen. So that takes up half your memory if you have a fully-loaded 8-bit microcomputer of the day, which maxxed out at 64Kb. And even competent minicomputers usually didn't have much more than that.
But even more importantly - there was no way to update the whole screen rapidly. The interface to the terminal was RS-232 - a serial connection usually running a maximum of 9600 baud. That's about 960 characters a second. The typical terminal had an 80 x 24 display, which is an array of 1920 character spaces. So to fill a screen takes a full two seconds. (!)
That's no bueno. Nobody would ever write a full screen to do updates. Even just a full line update took enough time it's kinda noticeable. So back then, you did clever cursor positioning to make a decent user-experience on programs that filled data in specific positions on a display. Your program would create a page upon startup, and then only update certain sections for the user.
Well, knowing all this, I was really driven to make a full-screen editor for my Altair 8800 for its 50-year birthday. It uses every trick I could throw at it, and it works pretty darn good. Way better than it has a right to, given the technology it used.
Check it out if you feel like going down memory lane:
- Altair Editor, a full-screen in-memory text editor for the Altair 8800
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| Re: DOS 2 history (ping: Wayne) [message #99767 is a reply to message #99755] |
Mon, 07 September 2026 15:16 |
grindstone
Messages: 61
Registered: May 2010
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Viscount |
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Gawd yer intense in the finest of ways...and you've restored my faith in the world that a flicker of life remains (and will continue to).
There's always a rebel somewhere and the web ensures that code will outlive-us.
Thanks for sharing. Deeply, deeply cool.
Bruce, it's a pleasure to see / learn all this other side of you and I consider you a compatriot as well. I had all those box sets of disks/OS's and kept them until maybe 2018, too. Gave 'em all away to a kid who was curious and I never found out if it "took" because he moved away chasing oil shale or whatever it was happening in the Dakotas at the time.
Those hard drives were effing Loud (and heavy!). Even the keyboards. Honest-to-gawd my legs went numb when I used the real IBM PC AT keyboard on my lap. By then, the cords were so stiff -- the power cords had that longitudinal ribbing and they were ready to crack if you bent them. I kept them bec they were like 14 gauge
There was a hard task to find the right tech-recycling place but I found one in town...took a big load. HP test gear, Mac SE 30, couple AT's, TV's, sad day and somewhere I have a photo or two...they hired sort of half-way-house guys to get them employed and so on deboning and recycling gear.
I'm glad that there are still stewards of gear. There's no reason for sentimentality, but there it is. I have '58 Georgians that I can't / wont mod because I feel responsible to preserve them how they are, although they came from the landfill. Not daily drivers (but could be) bec I seem to spend most of the time in a bedroom where the computer is and they're in the basement (biggest/best room for them). 15-20 years ago, I could horse one around/up stairs myself but those years are gone so they stay downstairs. I light 'em up every week and they can still make me giggle like a little kid.
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