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Re: Empire [message #98461 is a reply to message #98460]

Sat, 19 April 2025 12:49

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18889
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I agree with some of what was said in the blog post you linked. We in America definitely have our problems, and many in politics here are our own form of "oligarchy."

But I will remind anyone reading here that in the Ukraine/Russia war - Ukraine is the "good guys" and Putin and his thugs are the "bad guys." It isn't the Russian people that are bad, but it most definitely is the Russian government that is bad.

It saddens me that we appear to be doing so little for Ukraine. We're making a mistake there. We should have stepped-in and allied with them decades ago.

That would have been good for everyone. Not a handout, but a partnership. That's where we need to be going in all our international relations.

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Re: Empire [message #98462 is a reply to message #98461]

Sat, 19 April 2025 16:12

Rusty
Messages: 1329
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

What we have done with Ukraine is to have been like coaxing two dogs into a fight. The eastern Ukraine civil war we had supplied arms to was amped up when Russia commenced it's special military campaign to earnestly put an end to the Nazi Ukraine's regime's degradation of eastern Ukraine's Russian population.
And the article provides what our US, Great Britain's and Europe's irrational and destructive mindset is with the cold war and NATO's enlargement to feed the US's military industrial complex with a bloated budget and proven now a false belief in our superiority in our technology and weaponry.

We are not and Ukraine's Nazi infested government are not the good guys here. Russia as I have been speaking to all along is simply defending it's right to it's national security of it's boarders.

Unfortunately the US and it's subservient European vassals are experiencing the errs of their ways now. But it's all by their own doings. Not Russia and not Putin or his government.
Our government is the one overrun by oligarchic infestation. And is showing the world with this crooked president at the helm just how debauched we've become.

He's frustrated with the peace talks now because the Russians have the upper hand and want the real reasons for this behavior of the western war mongers to be made a part of the treaty for ending this war. NATO enlargement and western belligerent warmongering ideology.

It was a fraud after WWII and it's been perpetuated until today. It's wrongheaded and unproductive in the world.

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Re: Empire [message #98463 is a reply to message #98462]

Sat, 19 April 2025 16:48

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18889
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Sorry, my friend, but I don't agree.

I don't agree that we've been coaxing two dogs into a fight. Maybe some individuals have been coaxing one side or another in the last few years, but we certainly haven't been doing that since the 1990s. We haven't done anything with respect to Ukraine until relatively recently.

And it looks to me like some highly-placed individuals in America have taken one side and other influential Americans have taken the other side. So we're not even uniform in our support, or whatever one might call it.

But the thing I think I disagree with most is any sort of characterization of Ukraine's government as being "Nazi infested." Their current government looks quite competent to me. In fact, I find their government right now to be the epitome of courage and honor.

I've been there, my friend. I know what I'm talking about. Please realize that and trust my judgement. The bloggers you're reading aren't giving you a good picture.

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Re: Empire [message #98464 is a reply to message #98463]

Sat, 19 April 2025 17:54

Rusty
Messages: 1329
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Just because you've "been" there Wayne is about as useful to knowing how a government goes about it's business as what we living all our lives in the US know about our own government and it's business. Mainly because we've been lied to and manipulated with the propaganda narrative that our empire managers want crafted to sustain our compliant behavior to what deeds that have been done in the name of so called national security for decades on end.

Have we not these bloggers consisting of military veterans, CIA analysts, economists and political scientists that have disseminated what really is going on. Along with some brave whistle blowers like Snowden, Ellsberg and others that have a conscience enough seeing the egregious wrongdoings of our government at their peril and wellbeing to their lives afterward. We would all be a more compliant sheep unaware of what's going on.

What's being shown here by these people is the chronic dysfunctionality that gives a thread of evidence for what we know intuitively for what seems wrong with our society. The threads run through our economy our politics and our foreign policy that gives a clue to what isn't working and why.

And the irrational contradictions that our government goes through to justify supporting blatant genocide in Gaza. Our history of warmongering that hasn't had any positive outcomes. A military budget that exceeds those of the top 9 other countries military budgets combined. And having 800 military bases strewn through out the world.

There have been articles published about Ukraine's Neo Nazi nationalists from before the outbreak of this war. And the corruption of Zelensky's government. You just choose to dismiss it.

But the contradictions and threads of evidence add up to give credence to the alternative to the official narrative. Which is corrupt. Which is what's wrong with our country. Our current president is symbolic as a symptom of the disease that's crippled our country.

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Re: Empire [message #98465 is a reply to message #98464]

Sun, 20 April 2025 08:01

Rusty
Messages: 1329
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Corruption in Ukraine:
https://kkc.com/corruption-index/corruption-in-ukraine/

Nazi's in Ukraine:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/04/growth-of-ukraines-azov-units-follow-path-of-the-waffen-ss.html#more

Zelensky's corruption:
https://www.occrp.org/en/project/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle

I used the inimitable Conway Twitty's song, Only Make Believe as a reference to how our political and empire management spins the false "make believe" narrative to cover for a corruption of our own values system. Our phony exceptionalism. Our free lunch world trade using bonds over material to pay for imports and even finance our warmongering over the decades.

Now in jeopardy of running out of steam as countries around the world may not exactly want to "pledge" their homage to our dollar dominance and our so called security umbrella. Such as what Trump is basing his idiotic trade war on.

Empires rise, empires fall eventually. Maybe this is the twilight. I hope so. It's not worth it, keeping up appearances.

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Re: Empire [message #98466 is a reply to message #98465]

Sun, 20 April 2025 08:43

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18889
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Again, I have first-hand experience. My opinions are not from third-party web gibberish propaganda but from actually being there and having decades-long relationships.

So let me ask you this, Rusty: How are you forming your opinions?

You said, Just because you've "been" there Wayne is about as useful to knowing how a government goes about it's business as what we living all our lives in the US know about our own government and it's business. Mainly because we've been lied to and manipulated with the propaganda narrative that our empire managers want crafted to sustain our compliant behavior to what deeds that have been done in the name of so called national security for decades on end.

So the inference I'm taking from your statement is that all of us here in America know very little about our own government, and upon that I generally agree. But how much less must we know about other parts of the world? And if we know so little, what in the world gives you confidence in the bloggers you so often cite? Do you know them personally, and found that they have earned your trust? If not, what do you know about those bloggers that gives you such trust?

What exactly do you base your trust upon?

Is it their credentials? Why are their credentials more credible to you than other people with similar credentials? Or is it some kind of "gut feel?" How can you trust your intuition since we've all been "lied to and manipulated with the propaganda narrative that our empire managers want crafted," as you've said?

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Re: Empire [message #98467 is a reply to message #98466]

Sun, 20 April 2025 14:39

Rusty
Messages: 1329
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Well that's very simple Wayne. People like economists Jeffrey Sachs and Michael Hudson have had direct contact with officials in the Russian government from the time of the USSR's dissolution and afterward. Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern were both former CIA analysts. McGovern has testified at the UN. Scott Ritter served in the military and was part of the original UN weapons inspector team in Iran that Trump tore up the treaty in his first term. Colonel Larry Wilkerson was in the cabinet of George Bush Jr. under Colin Powell and has extensive knowledge of foreign relations. Professor John Mearsheimer is a political scientist of international standing. Colonel Douglas Macgregor worked with NATO command in Europe. Alastair Crooke was a British diplomat serving in the Middle East and spent 30 years in the British CIA called MI6. I could list more..

These people aren't yahoo's sitting in their study or basement ranting about the world like some conspiracy geeks. They're legitimate career government and professional educators. They aren't like citizens of some country that have a gripe about their government. They have some training, experience and education and most important, some legitimate concern about what our country has been doing for quite some time. And p.s. they aren't all of the liberal way of political alignment. There is a grass roots formation of people that are more interested in a realistic understanding of the way the geopolitical relationships are progressing in the world. And politics doesn't determine the allegiance. They give for me at least, the most rational explanation for the irrational news I certainly hear. That includes the reason for the Ukrainian conflict and the utter denial in aiding and abetting genocide in Gaza. Both, senseless and grotesque events that our country is at the center of happening. Deny it if you want. I don't that's all, thanks to these influencers and other's giving me insight to the make believe our government and commercial news outlets lead us on with.

I can appreciate your experience in that region of the world. I'm sure it gave you some insight about their culture and society. But that's not the same as having insight into the ways of government and it's hierarchy plays out in this world.
That's on a whole other level.

I feel our problems of our country are deep and conflicting. And our influence in the world has become unhealthy. Why else would other countries form together to counter
our exceptionalism behavior? These influencers as you refer them as seem to feel so too.
And I'm glad I've come to realize from them what they've explained.
Thing's are jacked up brother. It needs to change.

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Re: Empire [message #98468 is a reply to message #98467]

Sun, 20 April 2025 16:01

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18889
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I am visiting with you, imagining we are hangin' out at Town Topic eatin' a burger.

There are a lot of people that I tend to trust in most respects, but not in everything. That's true in many fields but I think it holds most strongly in politics right now.

I think some of the reasons for this are that conditions are changing. We are all changing our opinions on things, but those opinion-shifts are slow. An example is conservatives that are shifting from laissez-faire to protectionist views. Another example is liberals that are shifting from wanting to reduce military spending and "make love not war" to wanting to increase military spending and throw money at wars. We are seeing some shifts. They are slow shifts, but very apparent.

I think another reason is what you said earlier. People can't see the inner-workings of government, so they have to depend upon information sources and it's hard to know who to trust. We are becoming more suspicious of our news sources, and probably rightly so. But that doesn't stop our human tendency to form opinions, even if we don't really know our information or its sources.

As for me, I base my opinion on the Russia/Ukraine situation on what I've seen there since the 1990s. It's based on Russians, Ukrainians, Moldovans, Azerbaijanians and others from the former Soviet Union that I know personally. Most of them are good American citizens or they are family or friends of Americans. Some are legal work visa holders.

And just as importantly - I don't see this through the eyes of politicians in Moscow or Kiev or even Washington D.C. I don't see it through the eyes of news media that's intractably tied to those political machines either. I see it through the eyes of the people living in cities in the former Soviet Union. I see it through the eyes of the people.

And just as importantly, I see with the eyes of time. We all do if we care to look. What I mean by that is this: Time tends to show motives very plainly. I don't have to believe what a man says, I can simply watch what he does. Similarly, I don't have to believe what a government says it will do, I can watch it to see what it actually does. And over time, one can always see a man's actions or those of an organization, a company or an entire country.

What I see very clearly is there was no "empire building" in Ukraine. If there had been, they wouldn't be having this problem right now. They were left to fend for themselves. They even gave their nuclear weapons to Russia on the promise that they would not need those weapons to defend themselves. But now look where they sit. Very little economic or military/security partnership ever occurred. That's not empire building. That's very much the opposite.

So I tell you this because I want you to realize that I see this situation with crystal clarity. I have absolutely no motivation for spin. I don't have a political blog. I'm not tied to someone running for office. I'm just a guy that happens to be really familiar with the culture. That's why I can see through all the "talking heads" that speak nonsense.

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Re: Empire [message #98469 is a reply to message #98468]

Mon, 21 April 2025 08:09

Rusty
Messages: 1329
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Well, if you look through time at what America has been doing both domestically and internationally. You can with a little effort readily see the patterns of negativity that are never challenged by our press and certainly in the political realm. As I stated, "Why would country's be aligning towards advancing an alternative to our pattern of dominance"? They are the majority in the world in population.

Domestically, we have been traversing an economic philosophy which has stripped out the middle class numbers pushing it downward. And oppressing people with debt servicing. All while the upper classes have been thriving. Why would we want to continue this downward spiral for the greater portion of our population? A few good academics propose alternatives to the orthodoxy that are either ignored or vilified.

Internationally our foreign relations have been centered in a philosophy of American dominance through military and financial aggression. Enmeshed in war either directly or by proxy and using our dollar dominance to try and "hurt" sovereign country's economies that won't play the way we want. Why shouldn't country's be opposed to this?

So, the eyes of the people are rather shaded from a lot of this realization. As our news outlets are shallow in content and our politicians are essentially bribed and beholden to the donor class.
People do know inherently though that things are not kosher. They turn to differing means to try and understand. Some are influenced though through crack pot conspiracy notions. Some just acquest to whatever the news outlets spew out.

I feel "for me" that the people I listed and more have some personal ethics to lend their acquired knowledge over their lives and speak up and make a challenge to the narrative we're fed officially by government and by media. I find it compelling as it answers with some degree of rationality the core reasons for what is going on.
They have some expertise and insight that is valuable that we people living our lives where ever haven't had the time or notion to be aware of.

So, while I admire what you say about I see it through the eyes of the people. I think we need some help fleshing out what's going on.
Just like we need the expertise of any field of endeavor from Dr's. to carpenters. Even speaker builders.
Not all talking heads are spewing nonsense. Least the ones I find compelling.

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Re: Empire [message #98470 is a reply to message #98469]

Mon, 21 April 2025 09:49

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18889
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I understand that you're placing trust in people you think have access and/or credentials. I would generally do that too.

But then again, when I see or hear someone say things that I know aren't true, I don't care about their access or credentials. I realize that trust in them isn't warranted. And this is most egregious when what they say is not only false but outrageous.

Here's one popular example: The emotionally charged statement that there are Nazis in Ukraine. This has been one of Putin's favorites, and to my amazement, it has been regurgitated here in America by some people. It is an emotionally-charged slur that is not only inaccurate but extremely offensive.

The Ukrainians lost millions of people to the Nazis in WWII. Ukrainians are particularly sensitive to that. So Putin saying there are Nazis in Ukraine is probably the biggest insult he could make. Not only is it the pot calling the kettle black, but it is an insult that goes deep into a Ukrainian's heart.

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