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Re: Ukraine [message #98343 is a reply to message #98342] Sat, 01 March 2025 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gofar99 is currently offline  gofar99
Messages: 1975
Registered: May 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
Illuminati (5th Degree)
There's more.  I don't know about you all, but when someone shakes a finger in my face it is not a sign of respect.  Kind of like scolding a child.  In situations like we saw yesterday it demonstrates a complete lack of control and understanding on the part of the finger pointer.  A clearly personal attack that has nothing to do with the purported purpose of the meeting. I'm done for today but expect to to further embarrassed by the conduct of some individuals.

Good Listening
Bruce
Re: Ukraine [message #98344 is a reply to message #98343] Sun, 02 March 2025 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1289
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Well the whole demeaning tone out of the notion of "ungratefulness" is an affront to the destruction and blood shed by Ukraine. Estimates so far are some half a million dead and untold wounded. Never mind our country's contribution towards initiating this conflict to occur. Trump expects repayment for our support! Throwing out numbers way over what was actually allotted by congress. Alluding to bogus mineral reserves that even if they did exist in quantity to extract should be at the discretion of the country containing the minerals. Zelenski is no angel though.
But Trump is only transactionally minded. He wins, you lose. Winner takes all.

I remember the legislation for "bounty hunting" here in Missouri. Not unlike those in Texas for desperate women seeking an abortion. A Gestapo tactic either way.

Interesting what's goin on in these town hall meetings here in Missouri. Representatives are getting an ear full.
Re: Ukraine [message #98346 is a reply to message #98344] Tue, 04 March 2025 07:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1289
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Despite all the ongoing and practically daily assaults what the new administration is projecting for all to see. The main objective in regards to Ukraine now is to END this fruitless war. Though you wouldn't know that listening to news in Europe to remain steadfast to allowing the continuation of death. For no possible good reason.

And still there is denial and fear mongering to that Russian threat that's been in place since post WWII. Billions and billions spent on armament production to prevent invasion by Russia just as they did in Ukraine. Europe's next!

Corporate media never, ever brings up the facts leading up to Russia's invasion on any other pretext than they just did it. They're the aggressors, they're at fault. The world operates on yes and no, black and white. No other factors enter into the judgement.

The fact is though is that this war was predicted decades ago even by Henry Kissinger among others from this NATO buildup insanity. Ignored, pushed aside and scoffed at.
As blogger Caitlin Johnstone writes:

Quote:
As the Trump administration pauses military aid to Ukraine and western liberals continue their shrieking meltdown over Trump hurting Saint Zelensky’s feelings, it’s probably worth reminding everyone that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was indisputably provoked by western aggressions. That’s why so many western experts and analysts spent years warning ahead of time that western aggressions were going to provoke an invasion of Ukraine.

Now, some may hear this and say “Okay but Russia still shouldn’t have invaded even though our western leaders were aggressively provoking them to.” But before you do that it might be a good idea to look inside yourself and ask where that impulse is arising from. Why are you so eager to skip past the part where you criticize your own rulers for their role in starting this war and focus solely on criticizing the leader of an eastern government who has no power over you? What is it inside of you that’s flailing all over the place trying to avoid any forceful scrutiny of the reckless warmongering of your own government and its allies?

The last time a foreign rival placed a credible military threat near the border of the United States, the US responded so aggressively that the world almost ended (if you want to know just how close we came to nuclear annihilation during the Cuban Missile Crisis, look up the name Vasili Arkhipov). Western liberals have been conditioned to insist that Russia should have responded differently to the US empire amassing proxy forces on its border than the US would respond to the same kind of threat on its own borders. The frenetic mental contortions needed to justify this ridiculous double standard are only possible because the west is saturated in domestic propaganda manipulating the way they think about the world.
And Vasily Arkhipov did save the world from terrible consequences one day in October 1962. Once again from the aggression fomented by the United States towards Russia by putting missiles first in Turkey. Our reckless ways that has economic ties towards our military industrial complex. But we don't look inward at our ways. We blame others for what we stoked to begin with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Arkhipov
Re: Ukraine [message #98392 is a reply to message #98346] Thu, 27 March 2025 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1289
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
This just shows the depravity that our country does to other countries and their citizens. The Trump cabinet, (made up of some 13 billionaires) has submitted a proposition to Ukraine's government that expects the big payback of all of our weapons sent to them that only resulted in they losing hundred of thousands of lives and destruction of infrastructure.

We crap all over countries in this world with our ignorant exceptionalism and with this administration expect some sort of slavish gratitude for being mauled in a war we helped instigate them into.
Zelenski for one now is an illegitimate head of state having exceeded his term. And the Russians probably are not going to stop this campaign until all of their demands are met.
Which I hope spells out the complicity of what the US and Britain had in this ever having to occur.

But Trump and his oligarch pals visualize the world in a transactional framework. Lets make a deal. Come on down. We're a sick and depraved empire full of rot.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/03/trumps-rewritten-deal-with-ukraine-is-imposed-indentured-servitude.html#more
Re: Ukraine [message #98393 is a reply to message #98392] Thu, 27 March 2025 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18852
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I agree with some of that, but I am hopeful that America continues to provide assistance and a tacit alliance with Ukraine.  I am happy with a lend/lease deal like in WWII, where we expect repayment or with an investment plan that allows American companies to support Ukrainian infrastructure.  I wish we had done that kind of thing decades ago.

But I don't agree with any criticism of Zelenski.  In my opinion, he is the best president Ukraine ever had.  Most Ukrainians feel that way about him too.
Re: Ukraine [message #98394 is a reply to message #98393] Thu, 27 March 2025 21:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gofar99 is currently offline  gofar99
Messages: 1975
Registered: May 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
Illuminati (5th Degree)
Hi, I'm with Wayne on this.  If we want any respect in the world we need to not only honor previous agreements but provide some assistance where entities that are not friendly toward us are trying to harm ones that are friendly.  At the same time I am completely appalled by Trump wanting to take over Greenland.  It puts us in a light as unfavorable as our enemies.  I understand the election process in Ukraine but under the circumstances (basically war) I fully support Zelenski as their leader as do most Ukrainians.   He has demonstrated that an underdog can hold a big dog at bay when assisted from folks like us.

The above is not to indicate that the US is like snow white.  We have numerous problems and cause plenty throughout the world as well.  Right now I figure that we are really headed into deep S+++.  I can only agree with about 20% of what the present adminstration is doing.  We need to fix things not hack them randomly with a chain saw.  


Good Listening
Bruce
Re: Ukraine [message #98395 is a reply to message #98394] Fri, 28 March 2025 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1289
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
After WWI Germany was forced into reparations. Their economy floundered and eventually a strong willed leader emerged that built up their military along with nationalistic fervor and a twisted ethnic identity that led to another massive conflict.
After WWII instead of expecting reparations from Germany for their atrocities. We forgave their debt. And their post war economy flourished becoming in time the largest economy in Europe. The German miracle it was known. Indebting countries like we do with the International Monetary Fund puts countries in servitude to bond holders. Just like what the proposal is to Ukraine.

That country was "used" as part of our project to encircle Russia to the Black Sea. This project ran into a little snag through the will of the Russian government and people.
So call it a loss as at the table at Vegas. You roll the dice as all of our little projects aimed at preserving our empire notion of exceptionalism.

But Trump can't let it slide without coming out a winner. He's doing his typical adversarial "Trump card" with Russia with negotiations. They aren't flying. And with Ukraine naturally being now in a rock & hard place. His demands are high.

Zelensky isn't the intrepid stoic underdog as made out. He's as crooked as a great deal of what the Ukrainian government is and has been for some time. There has been a large coalition of Nationalist Nazi oriented fascists infested within the confines of government there. Whatever it took to bribe or influence Zelensky to go along with the US and Britain's "Let's give it a go" idiotic commitment to go to all out war with Russia with our lack luster backing shows how compromised Zelensky is to govern his country with the wellbeing of Ukrainians in mind.

Their people are exhausted by this terrible fraud foisted on them. They can't replenish their front lines without abducting unwilling men to serve as targets now for the Russian meat grinder. I doubt that Zelensky holds high esteem with most Ukraine's.

Holding out faith in whatever American virtue there is these days by the actions of what our government continues to do in the world seems contrary to demanding that our government alter its wanton ways. We choose between two equally compromised political parties that throw up candidates woefully out of touch with the realities of our economy, our environment and our changing world geopolitically due to our wanton ways of behavior. Our country now is an impediment to the stability of the concept of sovereign nations.
Re: Ukraine [message #98398 is a reply to message #98395] Sat, 29 March 2025 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1289
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
When should there be respect when none is shown? When one sovereign country is used in a ruse to go against another country to try and diminish and degrade it's sovereignty and security.

Trump now is using his typical egocentric tactics with negotiations with Russia that are totally transparent as being insincere. He wants a deal real fast to look decisive but Putin knows from experience how insincere the US is with treaties in the past.

The BRICS alliance was formed as a defense to counter US hegemony and aggression with our financial trade system monopoly with the dollar. The BRICS countries are actively hedging gold and decoupling from the dollar to protect their economies from our imperialist mindset.

In the Middle East the threat of escalating war is exacerbating with our wanton illegitimate stand with Israel. How does our standing in the world as a warmongering, conniving, selfish, boorish and aggressive empire make us morally superior?

Parts of the world are standing up to this malarkey, and rightly so.
Even Greenland.
Re: Ukraine [message #98402 is a reply to message #98398] Mon, 31 March 2025 12:36 Go to previous message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1289
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
A sad testimonial of disconnect with what the propaganda crap is written in our supposed higher journalism source in denial of who, what, when and why this all happened. To the reality on the ground being subjected to the horrors of war. That I'll remind over and over. Did not have to happen.

But the disconnect still persists. Just read the NY Times to stay pleasantly numb.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/03/racist-allied-underestimation-of-russias-abilities-led-to-its-win.html#more

Please don't use my name.
Reality.

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2025/03/27/please-don-t-use-my-name
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