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Re: Ukraine [message #98067 is a reply to message #98054]

Sat, 02 November 2024 10:24

Rusty
Messages: 1246
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

It's the narrative. Propaganda fed to the corporate press to manage and persuade public opinion. Ukraine is in its last throws of conducting this fruitless war of attrition. Foisted upon them by their corrupt leaders and our corrupt national security apparatus that influences our corrupt political apparatus.
So, another country in a now among a long history of countries affected by our foreign policy to try and maintain our hegemony in this world. Its an abomination.

Here's how the narrative has played out via the NY Times.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/11/ny-times-announces-ukraine-narrative-change.html#more

I feel disgusted with our country's behavior with the Ukraine disaster and primarily with the Israeli genocide we have permitted. All in our quest to maintain our semblance of control.
We continue to torment and torture little Cuba after all these years. By vetoing a referendum, now done annually, and voted yes to end our blockade on a poor Caribbean Island by every nation on Earth save the US and Israel. Because it has stubbornly refused to become a neoliberal puppet to our way of doing business.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/10/1156316

And not to change one iota with either candidate we vote on Nov. 5.

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Re: Ukraine [message #98093 is a reply to message #98067]

Wed, 27 November 2024 10:30

Rusty
Messages: 1246
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Boiling the frog. Has been America's strategic aim with conducting its proxy war with Russia this last two years. But its readily apparent that, like our blanket and targeted sanctioning scheme won't work with a determined and resourceful opponent. Russia has the resources financially and by alliances to brush aside our petty and arrogant financialized punishment system we use with impunity that is against international law. Which our rules based diplomacy based on our own rules to make and break whenever it suits our neocon exceptionalism of world order.

Lame duck Joe Biden up's the ante in his remaining term in office to turn up the heat on Russia for reasons that only reinforces the notion of the bankrupt philosophy of even manipulating this conflict to begin with. Allowing longer range missiles to fire into Russia by the losing badly Ukraine corrupt administration.

Russia answered with it's own ante. Not a tit for tat. But an exponential display of force.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/11/how-the-new-russian-missiles-are-changing-the-game.html#more

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Re: Ukraine [message #98114 is a reply to message #98093]

Sun, 08 December 2024 09:48

Rusty
Messages: 1246
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

The Art of War. And a means to curtail it. From the weekend wrap up at the blog, Moon of Alabama. A great source of international and national journalism unfettered by corporate media editorial boards that won't touch on the controversies of contradiction.

Starting with how the philosophy of administering warfare differs between Russia and western military strategists.

https://aurelien2022.substack.com/p/the-missile-will-always-get-through

And the Chinese answer to our military harassment and free trade hypocrisy. Deny the raw material for the ability to make weapons.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/12/could-chinese-control-over-strategic-minerals-coupled-with-us-corruption-cripple-the-sputtering-us-war-machine.html

Sustaining our foreign policy and military complex for maintaining our delusional supremacy of a world moving in contrary to that is becoming harder and harder. We took reins of a world in ashes from a world war mid 20th century. We were unscathed. We did well with a mixed economy under a legacy of an economic doctrine that allowed government to assist with maintaining a low cost of living for the sake of manufacturing and heavy industrial world leadership.

This was replaced by a financial takeover of our economic philosophy starting in the mid 1970's. And the rest of the world has come back to eclipse our economic productivity mainly due to our country abandoning our bread and butter manufacturing and industry.
We're declining and denying it from the very top of government and corporate ideology.
So, those whom we vilify as autocratic, not democratic, that are ascending are applying their self interest to counter our questionable self interests.
Do we want perpetual scheming and war? Is it a profitable means to maintain world leadership, or would cooperation and sharing the issues of the world diplomatically be a better investment?

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Re: Ukraine [message #98161 is a reply to message #98114]

Sat, 28 December 2024 07:08

Rusty
Messages: 1246
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Understanding the Ukraine conflict. Jeffrey Sachs. The United States effort to encircle Russia to the Black Sea. Spanning the decades since the Soviet collapse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiK6DijNLGE&t=2s

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Re: Ukraine [message #98162 is a reply to message #98161]

Sat, 28 December 2024 09:30

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18832
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Honestly, Ukraine and Russia have had conflicts since before America was a nation.

What is funny to me is that Russia - in its Soviet days - used to consider itself to be free of greed.

But now, Putin and his novi-russki buddies are motivated by nothing but greed. Well, I say nothing, but that's not true. They are also motivated by arrogance and power.

The Russian people should rise again and unseat their tsar. Most of the rest of the world is certainly on board with that.

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Re: Ukraine [message #98163 is a reply to message #98162]

Sat, 28 December 2024 11:24

Rusty
Messages: 1246
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Sigh. I feel our neocon indoctrination of the public is complete. No amount of evidence of our corrupt meddling, our lies. Our own novi-Amerikan oligarchy profiting from our over-bloated military complex being our last means of having any export industry. To supply NATO countries and dictatorships a means of control.

History will show just that. Long after our empire minded neocon state of foreign affairs is a footnote. It's sad I think what our own country does in the name of blanket national security. But other countries not in membership of our 'control' that pursue their sovereign interests are the evil empire or under the domination of bad actors.

No, we only have to look at ourselves with an honest and critical self evaluation. Like an alcoholic or drug user that is in 'denial' to their own chaotic behavior detrimental to others. Our country has exhibited in history and currently just that.
Mr. Sachs points that out precisely and truthfully. Unlike the smirking Victoria Nuland or messy haired Boris Johnson in the video lying through their teeth.

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Re: Ukraine [message #98164 is a reply to message #98163]

Sat, 28 December 2024 20:49

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18832
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

There are many Americans that are less than upstanding, to be sure. Many of them are politicians. So I won't defend for anyone or any political "side" without personally knowing them.

I will say this though: I can make two observations that I think are so axiomatic, I don't need to know the players involved to draw a conclusion.

1. American politics has devolved to a point where the rhetoric is deafening. It's pretty gross. But even at this low level - and I think it's pretty bad - we still haven't quite resorted to murder. Character assassination, to be sure. It's ugly and even pathetic, definitely.

But Russian politicians routinely murder or attempt to murder their opponents. Poison seems to be the weapon of choice, but there have been other methods. So to me, that's a big deal. It's nuts over there. Politicians - and powerful businessmen, for that matter - those that do not side with Putin are often murdered. It's been like that for decades.

2. The Russian oil business is run in such a criminal matter that it is virtually impossible to do business with Russian oil interests without being seriously compromised. Anyone doing business with Russian oil companies is suspicious, and Americans doing this are potentially treasonous.

To do business with Russian oil is to seduce oneself with an armed prostitute. She'll wink and flirt and promise you stuff, then threaten to murder your family when you don't do what she wants.

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Re: Ukraine [message #98167 is a reply to message #98164]

Sun, 29 December 2024 06:23

Rusty
Messages: 1246
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Tsk tsk. Rhetoric and murder do not mix? Those Russkies and their crude behavior leads one to cement their disdain for them. Rex Tillerson, Trumps first Secretary of State didn't mind it though doing Exxon Mobile business with them. But apart from that. Character assassination in our politics is part of the game.

And real life assassination a part of our CIA security apparatus. And proxy wars now to contract others to do the will of our neocon fanatics scheming. Ukraine's freedom & democracy as well as the rest of Europe is at stake! We must stop Russia's ruthless territory grab.

Like we must stop North Vietnam's domino theory of communist takeover of Asia.
Then we must stop Saddam Hussein's mad dictatorship of Iraq. And the spread of Jihadi terrorists in the Middle East in Afghanistan.

And Israel has a right to defend itself. We must supply them the means to rid all Palestinians, er, that is Hamas and Hezbollah from the expansion of Israel itself. The Gaza strip after all is prime beachfront property.

Then we must march onward Christian soldiers like the Crusades to take on our new mortal enemy, the Chinese.

Yeah. Those Russian's are too crude.
We're much more sophisticated. And lethal.

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Re: Ukraine [message #98173 is a reply to message #98167]

Sun, 29 December 2024 21:03

gofar99
Messages: 1967
Registered: May 2010
Location: Southern Arizona

Illuminati (5th Degree)

Hi I hear you Rusty but I am more with Wayne on this. The way we conduct politics and business now are atrocious. The way the Russian Government deals with issues is far worse. A shame for both of us. I believe that a vast majority of common citizens of both countries would rather be left alone to live their lives.

Good Listening
Bruce

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Re: Ukraine [message #98174 is a reply to message #98173]

Mon, 30 December 2024 06:37

Rusty
Messages: 1246
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Seems to me, based on what I ascertain. Is our domestic media is lax in its ethical commitment for unbiased reporting. A good deal of our media is owned by extremely wealthy individuals now. And their editorial boards constrain reporting to fit the common narrative put out by our national security institutions.

It's people like the economist Jeffrey Sachs. That have real experience with how the inner working of government(s) are and the people close to policy making that I take note of contradicting the homogeneous media output.
He and others paint a different picture to serious world happenings. And why they're happening. Giving context to the gap left out of the reporting of it.

There is no factual accounting of what is leveled by our media towards how Russia and other countries that aren't part of the US led association of countries. There is innuendo and a built up narrative spanning decades. Call it spin. The book The Mighty Wurlitzer goes into how the CIA and other national security agencies put that spin through media outlets to shape public sentiment.

This has spanned my whole life and beyond particularly towards the old Soviet Union and now Russia. I'll never forget how as a child hearing public messages on the TV with a quote taken out of context by then Premier Nikita Khrushchev. "We will bury you". Quite chilling for a child to hear in those duck & cover days.

So if one takes the time and trouble to get an alternative accounting to long standing institutionalized view points. One can learn that hypocrisy is the underlying norm. There is a whole body of evidence such as what Mr. Sachs points to in the Youtube video link that point that out.

I just don't buy the crap put out there. And our historical record for our foreign policy helps to confirm that. Your mileage may vary.

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