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Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #94882 is a reply to message #94881]

Thu, 09 December 2021 13:38

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18787
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I agree that we've wasted a ton of money in the last 50 years. You and I definitely agree that federal spending has been out of hand since the mid-1970s. And I think that's my point - I'm just not sure that we can increase debt without consequence. I understand that our fiat currency can be adjusted without an external point of reference, and I also understand that our currency has actually been treated as if it were the reference. It's just that I wonder how long we'll be able to maintain that position.

By spin, what I meant was the mention of "two centuries and counting." The writer clearly implicated that we've had debt (just like this) for the last two-hundred years and that's just not so. I don't know whether or not the other concepts are spin, but I do know that we haven't had debt like this for two-hundred years. It's not even accurate to say that we've had a linear increase for two hundred years. It has been up and it has been down. But it has skyrocketed in the most recent decades.

The only other time we've had debt at this level was the years around WWII, and we reduced it rapidly in the two decades that followed. Those post-war years were probably the most economically successful years in America's history.

I'm not sure about the causal relationships though. I don't know if it was the rapidly diminishing debt in our post-war years that caused our success, or if it was our success that funded the rapidly diminishing debt during that time. I'm not even sure there was a causal relationship, and I think that's what the MMT proponents would say. They would probably say there is no causal relationship between national debt and overall economic success. I think that's their basic premise. But I'm not sure I agree with that. It kinda goes against reason.

Maybe it's because I see things from a micro-economic view, or maybe I should say from a "family-checkbook" point of view. National and global economists must see things from a macro-economic point of view. Maybe they're completely different things. Certainly other complex systems are very different from micro to macro perspectives, so maybe economics is too.

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[Message index]

		Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 03 September 2018 14:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Kingfish on Mon, 03 September 2018 14:56
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 09 September 2018 11:23
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Tue, 11 September 2018 16:43
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 12 September 2018 10:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 17 February 2019 18:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Kingfish on Wed, 01 May 2019 11:04
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 01 May 2019 14:45
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Kingfish on Sun, 12 May 2019 15:37
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 13 May 2019 09:56
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 13 May 2019 10:28
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Newjack on Mon, 13 May 2019 23:24
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 14 May 2019 09:57
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 07 June 2019 10:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 25 March 2020 19:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 04 April 2020 09:58
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Sat, 11 April 2020 13:05
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 April 2020 15:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Sat, 11 April 2020 16:14
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 April 2020 17:23
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Sat, 11 April 2020 17:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 April 2020 19:19
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 13 April 2020 11:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Mon, 13 April 2020 16:00
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 13 April 2020 17:03
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Wed, 15 April 2020 11:48
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 15 April 2020 14:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 19 April 2020 11:36
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 19 August 2020 10:08
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 10 October 2020 09:07
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 29 December 2020 11:22
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 27 January 2021 11:42
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 15 February 2021 10:21
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Mon, 15 February 2021 11:58
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 15 February 2021 14:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Mon, 15 February 2021 15:23
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 15 February 2021 17:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 16 February 2021 11:57
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 17 February 2021 10:52
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 20 February 2021 10:53
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 22 February 2021 09:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 23 February 2021 11:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 28 February 2021 10:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 16 March 2021 12:26
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 17 March 2021 17:49
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 17 April 2021 11:10
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Sat, 17 April 2021 11:24
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 17 April 2021 18:32
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 29 April 2021 13:53
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 05 May 2021 09:07
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Wed, 05 May 2021 11:04
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 05 May 2021 14:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 07 May 2021 10:20
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 14 May 2021 11:38
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 25 May 2021 12:30
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 28 May 2021 18:15
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 31 May 2021 11:43
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 16 June 2021 08:54
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 21 June 2021 08:07
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 14 July 2021 12:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 15 July 2021 10:07
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 15 July 2021 11:22
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 15 July 2021 13:03
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 15 July 2021 14:41
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 15 July 2021 16:07
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 15 July 2021 17:44
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 16 July 2021 09:50
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 21 July 2021 17:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 27 July 2021 16:16
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 18 August 2021 10:24
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Wed, 18 August 2021 12:59
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 19 August 2021 14:37
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 20 August 2021 14:54
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 31 August 2021 09:38
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Tue, 31 August 2021 21:54
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 01 September 2021 10:05
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 04 September 2021 09:46
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Sat, 04 September 2021 21:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 05 September 2021 07:20
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Sun, 05 September 2021 08:36
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 12 September 2021 09:50
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Sun, 12 September 2021 20:39
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 13 September 2021 09:27
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 15 September 2021 10:41
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 25 September 2021 13:08
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 06 October 2021 11:08
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 19 October 2021 09:44
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 23 October 2021 12:02
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 23 October 2021 16:43
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 30 October 2021 13:26
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 07 November 2021 08:57
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 08 November 2021 15:18
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 22 November 2021 10:01
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 08 December 2021 19:30
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 09 December 2021 09:22
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 09 December 2021 12:01
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 09 December 2021 13:38
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 09 December 2021 18:28
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: gofar99 on Fri, 10 December 2021 20:31
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 December 2021 08:56
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 12 December 2021 10:03
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 04 January 2022 12:33
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 13 January 2022 11:41
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 01 February 2022 12:04
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 08 February 2022 11:00
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 09 February 2022 11:18
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 19 February 2022 17:32
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 28 February 2022 13:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 15 March 2022 14:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 24 March 2022 11:23
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 01 April 2022 21:42
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 21 April 2022 14:17
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 16 May 2022 10:33
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 05 June 2022 11:43
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Sun, 05 June 2022 18:38
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 06 June 2022 10:35
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 12 June 2022 09:32
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 22 June 2022 10:55
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 03 July 2022 11:41
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 12 July 2022 11:31
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 12 July 2022 12:03
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 12 July 2022 17:50
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 12 July 2022 18:27
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 13 July 2022 10:17
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 14 July 2022 07:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 14 July 2022 11:15
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 02 August 2022 12:21
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 28 August 2022 13:06
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 05 September 2022 11:59
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 17 September 2022 08:32
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 28 September 2022 11:48
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 11 October 2022 12:58
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 14 October 2022 12:05
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 02 November 2022 11:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 16 November 2022 18:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 11 December 2022 12:20
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 12 December 2022 19:31
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 06 January 2023 10:18
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 10 January 2023 10:19
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 10 January 2023 15:24
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 10 January 2023 17:21
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 24 January 2023 11:10
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 27 January 2023 10:20
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 30 January 2023 12:09
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 11 February 2023 08:58
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 14 February 2023 11:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 15 March 2023 12:05
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 19 March 2023 13:46
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Sun, 19 March 2023 18:27
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 20 March 2023 07:46
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 21 March 2023 11:31
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Tue, 21 March 2023 13:15
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 21 March 2023 17:16
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 22 March 2023 07:34
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 24 March 2023 12:01
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 07 April 2023 10:55
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 07 May 2023 07:40
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 21 May 2023 18:48
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 25 May 2023 10:36
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 01 June 2023 10:17
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Thu, 01 June 2023 18:00
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 02 June 2023 06:37
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 08 June 2023 12:19
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Fri, 09 June 2023 15:40
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		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 06 July 2023 10:27
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 09 July 2023 08:51
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 10 July 2023 12:57
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 23 July 2023 09:54
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 26 July 2023 10:08
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 05 August 2023 11:20
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sat, 12 August 2023 18:12
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 13 August 2023 08:49
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 12 September 2023 06:37
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Tue, 19 September 2023 12:25
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Wed, 27 September 2023 14:35
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		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Sun, 15 October 2023 09:15
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 23 October 2023 09:04
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Wayne Parham on Mon, 23 October 2023 09:50
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Mon, 23 October 2023 11:43
		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 26 October 2023 09:14
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		Re: Modern Monetary Theory By: Rusty on Thu, 23 November 2023 10:34
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