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Contemplating a change [message #69392]

Thu, 08 September 2011 14:33

SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

Having moved to a much smaller listening room (not to mention new city), I've not been able to set up my speakers in a way that produces a distinct sound stage, and I think it has a lot to do with too much bouncing around the walls. My current room is about 12' x 14' x 8'. My back is against one wall, speakers on the long wall in front of me (7' apart, 18" from wall). Some here will know that my set up is rather 4-pi like in that I use a JBL 2226 on the bottom, similar size cabinet, etc, same kind of crossover (different attenuation) but on top I use GPA driver (299?) on an Edgar Tractrix horn (800hz, crossed about 1200). So.... I'm contemplating seeing what a more pi like setup would do by switching to the Eminence PSD2002 and H295 horn. Right now that represents a big investment due to demands of a new home so I'm hesitent and wanted to see what kind of thoughts this forum might contribute. Thanks!

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Re: Contemplating a change [message #69393 is a reply to message #69392]

Thu, 08 September 2011 14:51

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18787
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Don't use an H295, it's a spitty and nasty sounding. If you go from a tractrix horn to that thing, you'll think constant directivity is responsible and we'll lose you forever. Laughing

Get an H290. It's a radial horn, with nearly constant horizontal directivity and gradually collapsing vertical directivity. That's just what you want in a speaker like this. I might also suggest using a DE250 driver instead of the PSD2002. The PSD2002 is a great driver for the price, but the DE250 is so much smoother, it makes a better speaker. Not a lot more expensive either. I'll send plans if you're interested and you can get the parts on order, build the crossover and give it a go.

High-Fidelity Uniform-Directivity Loudspeakers

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Re: Contemplating a change [message #69397 is a reply to message #69393]

Thu, 08 September 2011 16:32

SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

Wayne, thanks, love to get a copy of the plans. I had crossover plans at one point, but no way I can find them in the dozens of still unopened boxes!

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Re: Contemplating a change [message #69398 is a reply to message #69393]

Thu, 08 September 2011 16:33

SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

One other quick question, if I use the DE250, I would still use the H290 horn? No adaptors needed?

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Re: Contemplating a change [message #69400 is a reply to message #69392]

Thu, 08 September 2011 18:01

Matts
Messages: 359
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

When I switched to the B&C drivers, I only one speaker first, and A/B'd them for myself and some friends, and people couldn't believe the difference, mostly because they had all really liked the PSD2002's and couldn't believe it was the same. If cost is an issue, the Eminence is great value, and you'll be able to tell if you like them. The B&C is well worth the extra bucks if you can swing them. You might be able to find some used Eminence's to try easier than the B&C, as well, since they're used in pro sound a lot. H290 is a nice horn- nothing fancy, but very smooth & clear in this app.

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Re: Contemplating a change [message #69401 is a reply to message #69400]

Thu, 08 September 2011 18:13

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18787
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

You've got mail!

The DE250 bolts right onto the H290, no adaptor needed. The crossover schematic (in the plans) shows what components to use with it. The driver-specific differences are shown in the notes section at the bottom of the schematic.

four π loudspeaker performance data

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Re: Contemplating a change [message #69407 is a reply to message #69392]

Thu, 08 September 2011 23:01

SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

Thanks Matts and Wayne. I wonder if anyone can also speculate a guess about whether or not the different horns will work better than Tractrix in a smaller room.

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Re: Contemplating a change [message #69408 is a reply to message #69407]

Fri, 09 September 2011 00:22

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18787
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Well, I guess it's no surprised I'm biased, but then again, the trend towards uniform directivity among experts is clear. Controlled, uniform directivity is always welcomed, but in a small room, it's even more important because reflections are so much stonger. You need a balanced reverberent field, with spectral uniformity, and the only way to achieve this is flat power response combined with constant directivity.

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Re: Contemplating a change [message #69412 is a reply to message #69392]

Fri, 09 September 2011 06:28

Bill Epstein
Messages: 1088
Registered: May 2009
Location: Smoky Mts. USA

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

SteveBrown wrote on Thu, 08 September 2011 15:33

My current room is about 12' x 14' x 8'. My back is against one wall, speakers on the long wall in front of me (7' apart, 18" from wall).

I've got 12" on ya!

My 4Pis are tight up against the short wall is the other difference; the imaging and soundstage are pretty good.

If you go the full by-the-book 4Pi: box size, port, drivers, you'll wonder, as I did 3 years ago, why you screwed around so long with that other shit. The 299 with 511 horn is a great-sounding combo but I never liked the Edgar Horns. The smaller 4Pi box gives you a different perspective on bass reproduction and the new crossover makes a huuuge difference. Don't forget to cover the plastic horn in rope caulk.

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Re: Contemplating a change [message #69414 is a reply to message #69412]

Fri, 09 September 2011 08:27

SteveBrown
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

I've been doing some measurments of my existing cabs and may need to make some tweaks. My volume is 3.9 ft and the 4pi plans call for 3.1. My port area is about 85 in2 and 4pi is 210in2. Wayne, do I need to fix the cabinet size or will I be okay to just lengthen the port to match the volume of the 4pi plan?

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