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looking at 6 Pi's [message #62392]

Sat, 24 April 2010 10:50

andrewbeee
Messages: 5
Registered: April 2010

Esquire

Hi Wayne,

I am looking for your advice. My room is ~ 16' X 36' with the speakers on the short wall. I have been into single drivers for many years but its time to move on and try something new. I listen ~ 12' away from the speakers. I was considering a pair of 6 Pi's.
I would go with the 7's but in my mind 15''s are overkill.

In the case of the 6 PI, would you consider the AE TD12S a considerable upgrade to the Delta 12LF?

If yes, then what about the crossover? Would I be better off doing better caps and inductors with the AE TD12S only or would the Delta benefit in a like manner to the more expensive components?

I also am interested in the 4 Pi's but that midrange horn on the 6 & 7 PI's keeps calling me. I would think a dedicated mid horn would flesh out the mids more clearly and you must have had a reason for it.

What do you suggest?

I do not listen very loudly, I would guess peaks in the high 90's once in a Blue moon.

In any case, would you please send me the plans for the 6PI and 4Pi along with your suggestions?

Thanks

Andrew

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Re: looking at 6 Pi's [message #62393 is a reply to message #62392]

Sat, 24 April 2010 15:52

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18782
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I'll send plans, of course.

About the woofers, I personally think that is the most important upgrade. It makes a night and day difference, especially on the three and four π models. In those speakers, the woofer covers everything from bass up through midrange. It's not just the foundation but also the body of the sound.

The woofer doesn't have as much range to cover in the six π and seven π cornerhorns, but it is still not trivial. It covers a very important part of the audio band, the midbass, and it overlaps with the midhorn in the lower midrange. Harmonics generated in this range color the midrange, so even though the woofer in the cornerhorns doesn't cover as wide a span, it is still a very important range that it covers.

Myself, I consider the woofer upgrades as mandatory in my own personal systems. The lower cost woofers sound nice, don't get me wrong. I've listened to each of my models at length, even taken some to shows with the lower cost woofers. But the biggest improvement you can do it to go with the better woofer. Next would be the tweeter, and then certain crossover upgrades. More information on upgrades at the link below.

Upgrades

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Re: looking at 6 Pi's [message #62394 is a reply to message #62393]

Sat, 24 April 2010 23:24

andrewbeee
Messages: 5
Registered: April 2010

Esquire

Hi again Wayne,
Thanks for that. I have been going through your forum and and the web and saw a glowing report on hifiwigwam.com on the Seven Pi's.

I have been looking at my situation and am now having doubts as to the Six Pi's fitting in my room. I have a 65" TV along with equipment racks on either side. The speakers I now use are Tiny in comparison.

I am now leaning towards the Four or Three Pi. If I ever free up some space then I will already have the drivers except for the midrange for the larger cabinets.

I have a pair of Rythmik Servo Subs so have that part covered.

Would you send me the plans for the Three and Four Pi please?

Also, can you tell me what comes in the kit? Is it everything besides the wood for the enclosure?

Do you ship the kits overseas (Cayman Islands)?

Thanks again

Andrew

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Re: looking at 6 Pi's [message #62395 is a reply to message #62394]

Sun, 25 April 2010 08:41

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18782
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Kits include the speaker drivers, the connector panel, hook up wires, "π" logo decal and a printed copy of the plans. For larger speakers that incorporate a compression tweeter and crossover network, kits also include the crossover, Zobel woofer damper, and all cable assemblies are completed and ready to install. Every kit containing a compression driver also includes the horn flare and the bolts to mount the driver to the horn.

We do ship overseas, but shipping is naturally more expensive. Sometimes overseas customers buy the crossovers and source the drivers locally.

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Re: looking at 6 Pi's [message #62397 is a reply to message #62395]

Sun, 25 April 2010 12:06

andrewbeee
Messages: 5
Registered: April 2010

Esquire

Wayne thanks,

We actually have a JBL dealer here so i will go by and check on stock and pricing.

Out of interest, would it be possible to use the mid horn along with the Three Pi's, the HF horn being removed from the Three Pi cabinet and placed on top of the mid horn, the woofer as close as possible to the top of the Three Pi cabinet?
I saw this somewhere on the forum but with the Four Pi.
If yes then which crossover would I use, The Six Pi?

Andrew

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Midrange Horn [message #62398 is a reply to message #62397]

Sun, 25 April 2010 15:18

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18782
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Some people have done the hybrid, using the three π or four π cabinet for the bass bin and tweeter and adding the midhorn on top. They do it to allow for other placement options besides corners or as an upgrade path from the DI-matched two-ways.

When doing this, use the π cornerhorn crossover. If this hybrid three-way system is placed in a corner and toed-in 45°, it's pretty much the same thing as the π cornerhorn. Do bear in mind that the midhorn was designed for corner placement though, and that, in fact, the corner acts as an extension for the horn. It doesn't work as well if it isn't placed in the corner. More information below:

Midrange Horn

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Re: Midrange Horn [message #62400 is a reply to message #62398]

Sun, 25 April 2010 21:16

andrewbeee
Messages: 5
Registered: April 2010

Esquire

I did some measurements of my room today and there is no way the midrange cabs will fit so its the Three or Four Pi.

Would you email me the plans for both please?

Which ever way I go it will be with the upgraded woofers (AE Three Pi / JBL Four Pi / B&C for whichever) as per your recommendation.

Does the crossover need to be changed for the different woofers or compression drivers?

Do you have the crossovers in stock?

Are the Three and Four pi's rated the same for efficiency?

Which would you consider to be the "better" speaker.

I know we all love our kids the same but we still have favorites Smile

I will take your advice and try to procure the drivers locally.

I asked around here and the JBL's are well known and very popular, the AE's unheard of but I did a quick web search and saw who is behind AE so would have no problem using them.

Thanks

Andrew

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Re: Midrange Horn [message #62401 is a reply to message #62400]

Sun, 25 April 2010 22:58

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18782
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I already sent plans for the three π and four π loudspeakers, so check your inbox. If you don't have them let me know and I'll resend.

The three π and four π speakers sound similar but the four π model is 3dB louder with the same power input.

I won't say whether I think JBL is better than AE or vice versa but I will say the upgrade woofers are well worth the extra cost in every model. The tweeter upgrade is worthwhile too. I've ranked each upgrade and the order of audible improvement they bring in the link below.

Upgrades

The crossover is fundamentally similar but is slightly different for each driver. Each model woofer needs a different Zobel, for example.

We stock all the parts for every model and every upgrade option, but do not keep completed crossover assemblies for every model and option in stock. One person might choose upgraded coils and resistors, another would choose upgraded capacitors. So instead of trying to keep an inventory of every possible combination of upgrades, we simply build to order. It usually takes anywhere from a day to a week to ship crossovers.

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Re: Midrange Horn [message #62406 is a reply to message #62401]

Mon, 26 April 2010 10:20

andrewbeee
Messages: 5
Registered: April 2010

Esquire

Hi Wayne,

No sign of the plans, maybe I typed the incorrect address.

Would you send to my work addy pls.

abrandon(at)alphasoft.com.ky

and copy to

3fingerwu(at)gmail.com

I would go Four Pi with the driver upgrades

Thanks

Andrew

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