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Re: Art Array Improved Crossover [message #60394 is a reply to message #32207]

Mon, 13 July 2009 20:05

AudioFred
Messages: 377
Registered: May 2009
Location: Houston

Illuminati (1st Degree)

The most interesting thing I've found when comparing these two crossovers is that they measure within one dB of each other at each of the Stereophile Test CD 1/3 octave warble tone frequencies. They also don't sound very different except that I believe I'm hearing less distortion with the high order crossover when playing classical organ music loud.

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Re: Art Array Improved Crossover [message #60400 is a reply to message #32207]

Wed, 15 July 2009 15:42

AudioFred
Messages: 377
Registered: May 2009
Location: Houston

Illuminati (1st Degree)

After comparing many different types of recordings at different volume levels using both the Krell solid state amp and the Bottlehed Paramour 3.5 watt/ch SET tube amps I've decided to keep the higher order crossover in these speakers. The differences aren't great, but I do hear more treble detail with Pete's crossover, especially listening to clearly recorded jazz recordings. Also, after listening to the high order crossover for a while, when I switch to the first order the sound seems a bit "shouty" in comparison - much like listening to a good quality two way speaker then switching to a single driver Fostex speaker.

The speakers sound noticably better at very high volume levels when driven by the Krell solid state amp. The SET amp doesn't seem to prefer one over the other, and it will play equally loud with either. One downside of the high order crossover is that it becomes cost-prohibitive to upgrade the tweeter series caps because of their high values.

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Re: Art Array Improved Crossover [message #60427 is a reply to message #32207]

Sun, 19 July 2009 09:02

AudioFred
Messages: 377
Registered: May 2009
Location: Houston

Illuminati (1st Degree)

I pulled the speakers apart last week to finish the enclosures, and in the process of reassembling them I used Belden 12ga 5000 series cable instead of the original Wal Mart auto dept 16ga zip cord. I consider myself a "cable agnostic", and sometimes I believe my rich audiophile friends who spend thousands on a piece of wire should have an intervention with a therapist, a financial advisor, or both.

In this case the Belden cable made a clearly audible improvement in the treble resolution and a corresponding decrease in the fatigue factor. At 68 cents/ft from Blue Jean Cable, using this wire is a no-brainer for the internal wiring of diy speakers, especially line arrays that use long lengths.

With the Belden cable used as internal wire and as the speaker cables I hear an audible improvement with with the higher order crossover using both the high power Krell SS amp and the Bottlehed Paramour 2A3 SET amps.

http://fredt300b.smugmug.com/gallery/132721_wacsQ#595276572_kM2i2

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Re: Art Array Improved Crossover [message #60437 is a reply to message #60427]

Thu, 23 July 2009 10:32

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18782
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Somehow I missed these posts earlier. I'm glad you got around to building that crossover. I'd like to hear it someday, maybe measure it too. Judging by the speakers you've built, I think you and I have the same taste in voicing.

My guess is your room is a little more lively than mine though, because you tend to like a sort of BBC-dip-curve and I like it flatter. We both like full, powerful bass, not over-represented but definitely not weak. Perhaps the new voicing gives you more of that.

To me, what you had done already with the first-order sounded and measured very nice.

So what's with the cables? They're 12guage thick, so that's plenty for long runs. What were the old cables, 14 guage or 16 guage? What did you have in there length-wise, about 10 feet? 20 feet?

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Re: Art Array Improved Crossover [message #60446 is a reply to message #32207]

Thu, 23 July 2009 13:48

AudioFred
Messages: 377
Registered: May 2009
Location: Houston

Illuminati (1st Degree)

The difference with the cables isn't due to the size. I've replaced Wal Mart 12ga with Belden 12ga before, and the differenct is immediately apparent. The Art Arrays use about 20 ft per speaker, plus the run from the amp to the speakers is another 8 ft.

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Re: Art Array Improved Crossover [message #60448 is a reply to message #60446]

Thu, 23 July 2009 14:50

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18782
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

So what do you think is responsible for the difference in cables? Different copper (maybe purity), different numbers/sizes of strands, or maybe winding pattern? Different insulators? How do they compare visually?

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Re: Art Array Improved Crossover [message #60451 is a reply to message #60448]

Thu, 23 July 2009 16:32

Shane
Messages: 1117
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

I know when I went from Monster Cable to the Walmart Royal cable there was a night and day difference. Same between the wally world and the stuff the PE sent with the array kits.

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Re: Art Array Improved Crossover [message #60457 is a reply to message #60448]

Fri, 24 July 2009 08:12

AudioFred
Messages: 377
Registered: May 2009
Location: Houston

Illuminati (1st Degree)

Wayne Parham wrote on Thu, 23 July 2009 14:50

I don't know. The Belden is quite a bit stiffer, with fewer conductors. Otherwise I have no idea why it sounds better, but it does by a large margin. I have found in general that Belden cable sounds as good as many higher priced "audiophile" cables, the only differene being the lack of snake oil in the Belden.

Here's a link to the product data sheet:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/80632.pdf

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