Home » xyzzy » Dungeon » Incidence of Violent Crime Victims self-defense from US Govt records.
Incidence of Violent Crime Victims self-defense from US Govt records. [message #58625] Tue, 13 June 2006 17:08 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Here is the site with those stats. Less than .18% of gun related crimes are successfully defended according to the governments records.
Here is the article PMID:7998641; hereis the published summary.

It is well known that many of the violent crimes in the U.S. are committed with firearms. Less adequately documented is the frequency with which victims use guns in self-defense. We used National Crime Victims Information survey data to examine incidents where victims employed guns against offenders. Between 1987 and 1990 there were an estimated 258,459 incidents of firearm defense. An annual mean of 64,615.
Victims used firearms in 0.18% of all crimes recorded by the survey and in 0.83% of violent offenses.
Our conclusion? Firearm self- defense is very rare compared to gun crimes.


Re: Incidence of Violent Crime Victims self-defense from US Govt records. [message #58626 is a reply to message #58625] Tue, 13 June 2006 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I can't resist but to point out how absolutely stupid it is to quote "stats" like this. Listening to government statistics about gun use is a little like listening to a car-alarm salesman reporting how many car thefts there are. It's self-serving. If guns didn't work as an effective defense, then police wouldn't be armed. The thing is, very few people that have to use a weapon start jumping up and down and waving down the government to let them know.


Re: Incidence of Violent Crime Victims self-defense from US Govt records. [message #58627 is a reply to message #58625] Tue, 13 June 2006 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)

You are driven my friend! I dont have the energy to paw through stats like you do. (insert cartoon)
Just so you know, I'm not entirely against gun control. I just dont think the banning or total control is going to work. That why I argue against gun control. I think that obviously in the short term there will be a drop in crime if all the guns disappeared tomorrow. But something like that can no more happen than changing an entire society and the pent up anger. Too bad there isnt more relaxation. Excellent discussion. We recently covered religion and guns, Whats next week, capital punishment or abortion? I'll be on the lake tomorrow!

The Second Amendment [message #58628 is a reply to message #58625] Wed, 14 June 2006 03:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
elektratig is currently offline  elektratig
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Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Putting the statistics aside for a moment, there is a compelling case that the Second Amendment provides an individual right to bear arms.

The argument that the Second Amendment conveyed an individual right when it was originally ratified is fairly strong. Where it becomes compelling is after the Civil War, when Congress passed the Fourteenth Amendment, which applied the Bill of Rights against the states. The legislative history makes clear that, in so doing, the Radical Republicans controlling Congress were particularly outraged by terror campaigns in the South directed against Repubican sympathizers and former slaves by the Klu Klux Klan and similar organizations. Laws in southern states prohibited former slaves and others from owning weapons with which to defend themselves, and the Radical Republicans made clear that they viewed this as a violation of the Constitution. Congress had specifically in mind (among other things) the goal of giving individuals the right to keep and bear arms so they could deter and if necessary defend themselves against these threats.

The issue is, of course, politically charged -- as your posts demonstrate. But the history is a no-brainer.


Bowling for Columbine documentary [message #58629 is a reply to message #58627] Wed, 14 June 2006 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Did everyone see "Bowling for Columbine" awarded documentary movie by Michael Moore?
About gun violence in USA - "Are we a nation of gun nuts or we are just nuts?"


"...When I was just a baby, my mama told me, "Son,
Always be a good boy; don't ever play with guns."
But I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die."

Johnny Cash


Re: The Second Amendment [message #58630 is a reply to message #58628] Wed, 14 June 2006 06:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Good One E; in one of the replies earlier I say that the Second Amendment must not be taken lightly. They had rifles in every home as a given and that was part of the life of the early colonists. But the pistols of the time were laughable in regards to their accuracy and reliability. The world was a different place then. Who knows if the founding fathers; confronted with the enormous and lethal capability of our current weaponry would have painted in such broad strokes. However that is our responsibility to interpret the laws handed down with attention paid to those changes. The intent is clear but the manifestation is ours to determine.

Re: Bowling for Columbine documentary [message #58631 is a reply to message #58629] Wed, 14 June 2006 06:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Illuminati (13th Degree)
Over here Damir; Micheal Moore is a loaded topic. He does good work but sometimes he goes overboard. He is the epitomy of a divisive prescence.

Re: Incidence of Violent Crime Victims self-defense from US Govt records. [message #58632 is a reply to message #58626] Wed, 14 June 2006 06:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Sorry; I don't get this. Stats are how the crime fighters do their job. Where to allocate money and manpower etc. How can you make a policy without any knowledge of whats happening??

Re: Incidence of Violent Crime Victims self-defense from US Govt records. [message #58633 is a reply to message #58627] Wed, 14 June 2006 06:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Bill; wear that lifepreserver man!
Handguns will be controlled in the near future. The majority of the people want it; the insurance companies want it; the police want it and I want it.
Civilised countries around the world have found that banning handheld weapons causes a drop in violent crime. So far the NRA and other radical groups have held the reasonable people off; but not for long.
How come your off during the week? Don't the kids have tests this week? Or is this a little love cruise for the you and the Queen?

Re: Bowling for Columbine documentary [message #58636 is a reply to message #58631] Wed, 14 June 2006 07:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hmm, the film is very interesting, anyway...exactly the themes we`re talking about.
But...according to our friends...if that man from Reno had a gun or two...maybe everything would have been just fine...

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