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Well said (nt) [message #58580 is a reply to message #58579]

Mon, 12 June 2006 08:04

colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

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Re:Who's Next POPGUNSAM? [message #58581 is a reply to message #58576]

Mon, 12 June 2006 08:13

colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Dave was kind enough to answer your question. Why try to be funny in the subject line?

Gun owners are not fanatics. Can you cite where you came up with this, or is this your opinion? If it's your opinion that's fine, but don't use the word "we." They are just average citizens that refuse to be victims.......

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Re:Who's Next POPGUNSAM? [message #58582 is a reply to message #58581]

Mon, 12 June 2006 08:14

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

O'Kay; but it is a funny name. And knowing many gun owners in "My Experience" they are fanatics.

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Re: Well said (nt) [message #58583 is a reply to message #58580]

Mon, 12 June 2006 08:24

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

I am going to have to disagree with Bill here. While I think that is a very reasonable and well thought out opinion I see things a little differently.
Can people kill by means other than handguns? Sure; but many more are killed with them than I believe would be without them.
Armed robbery; what would be a robbers advantage to bringing a baseball bat into the store? No; that requires firepower.
Domestic Violence; yes many are killed by other means. But it takes a lot of serious hard work to kill someone with a knife or a bat. This is part of the teaching awarded to Policemen here. A small person generally cannot overpower a larger person with a bat or knife. Second you must be in very close proximity. Third you must be very able and capable with that device to kill. Thats why Special Forces guys get so much training in that field; because it isn't easy.
Then it takes a lot longer to kill by a rage induced hand weapon like a bat; that is time to prevent or stop the event.
Random Killing. This is rare but can happen. Much more difficult wioth a stick than a gun. People are wary of strangers and will be on guard.
I think my point is made. Handguns are the weapon of choice for a reason; kill quickly;
Kill at a distance; garraunteed kill over a stick.
light and easy to conceal.
But the real issue is random violence is almost impossible without them. Road rage; domestic violence etc is a non-entity with a bat.

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You own guns [message #58584 is a reply to message #58582]

Mon, 12 June 2006 08:26

colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas

Illuminati (3rd Degree)

Are you a fanatic?

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Re: You own guns [message #58585 is a reply to message #58584]

Mon, 12 June 2006 08:32

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

I ascribe the fanaticism to those who demand the rights to own any type of weapon; gun/auto-matic/rapid-fire/rocket-propelled etc. Then the people who support the gun lobby who want carry rights within city limits with locked and loaded weapons.
People who feel that any curb on the personal possesion of heavy arms or auto-matic arms is somekind of trespass on their inviolable rights as citizens; regardless of the danger that provokes for others.
And the people who want the permission from their fellow citizens to carry what amounts to a deadly killing machine in public with ammunition live and ready.
In my experience these type of individuals have no concern for their neighbors right to live in safety and security without fear of weapons related damage.

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Re: Don't think guns save lives [message #58586 is a reply to message #58579]

Mon, 12 June 2006 08:44

Eric
Messages: 34
Registered: May 2009

Baron

About the kids: I believe in training kids for gun safety. I do that with my godson and his friend, rifles for now, handgun maybe later. They might think it's cool, but if they do one unsafe thing then it's over, no more access. I don't think that having experience with guns like that is going to make any difference in the crime rate. I teach respect for life too which might make a difference. But one thing is for sure, they will know about gun safety, they will not accidentally shoot themselves or anyone else.

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Re: Don't think guns save lives [message #58587 is a reply to message #58586]

Mon, 12 June 2006 09:09

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Reasonable response. Good work.

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Re: Well said (nt) [message #58588 is a reply to message #58583]

Mon, 12 June 2006 09:09

Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

I dont see it happening. I think the cave man could reach beside his easy rock recliner, grap his club and swat the old lady out the door just as easy. Maybe getting cut off by a stage coach isnt the same as a little puff box with the windows bulging from the 4 woofers in the back seat, but hey, most everyone had a gun 100 years ago and road rage wasnt a problem.

It's the people and there attitude. Everyone is too busy, in hurry, wants it now, and more than anything the seperation of classes is making a lot of people feel unfairly treated. So, what can we do? taking away hand guns will of course slow down the crime rate. I wouldnt argue that point. Taking away hand guns is only a bandaid to problem that really does need some attention.

You cant take away long guns so whats the point of taking away hand guns. semi auto weapons are a bit much for the average guy, but I think the criminals will always find a way to get those guns.

We need better people. not better laws.

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Re: Well said (nt) [message #58589 is a reply to message #58588]

Mon, 12 June 2006 09:17

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Well you bring up a good point Bill; if we outlaw guns then only criminals will have guns; thats the usual rap on that.
But my response is two-fold. One in the majority of civilised countries the laws are concrete. No personal possesion of handguns. We know the crime rates in most of those places are much lowewr than here; especially the deaths from handguns figure. Why doesn't the criminal gun theory operate over there?
Next; thats why I address the manufacture of handguns. Stop making them for private sale; offer a bounty for the remaining guns in the society at large; make it a serious penalty for handgun possesion and a very serious mandatory sentence for any kind of unauthorised use. Fine anyone caught importing them into the country.

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