Home » xyzzy » Dungeon » Wayne brought up an interesting point
Re: An interesting point [message #58406 is a reply to message #58401] Tue, 06 June 2006 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Good post Bill. I think I see things the same way.
The only thing I might dispute is your last statement that you don't see anybody too happy with any of it. I think you might find some pretty happy very wealthy people; and some happy CEO's. They got pretty much what ever they wanted in the past 7 yrs.
The problem? Get people to vote for the leaders and not the one or two issues they favor. If a guy is anti-abortion he can't get elected in some places even if his policies are perfect in every other way; same for pro-choice people. You can see a couple issues that kill a candidacy and for what? Something that decides nothing and helps no one. A guy who is against praying in school but has good policies on everything else and he loses an election??? Thats BS.

Hand Tied [message #58407 is a reply to message #58404] Tue, 06 June 2006 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shane is currently offline  Shane
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My mother was a first grade teacher for 30 years up until last year. I can tell you from listening to her that her hands were definitely tied when it came to teaching and discipline. Over the last ten years the budget was cut for special ed programs, so those with learning disabilities were put back into the general population classrooms for thier core studies. Because of that she had to spend the majority of her time teaching the SE kids. This meant less material was being covered and the majority of kids were having to have the material picked up at home (that's if the parents helped at all). On top of that the spanish speaking kids who knew no english (or very little) were now filtering into the system, so she had SE children and non-english speaking children. To make matters a little more complicated, her school was the only one around for 100 miles that had open enrollment, so any discipline problem child that had been expelled came to her school. So now she had to deal with disruption in the extreme on top of that. And you can't touch the troublemakers at all. Can't set them out in the hall by themselves, isolate them in any way, no corporal punishment of course, etc.... She finally retired early this year because of the frustration. This is the typical small school in SW KS.

Re: Hand Tied [message #58408 is a reply to message #58407] Tue, 06 June 2006 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Well thats definately a problem. My thoughts? Remove local school administrative control and have the state take over. Then there would be the flexibility for people in small towns like yours to petition the state boards to address this issue. I have to ask; have the people in your district voted down any school budgets in the recent past? How is your district funded?

Then in the case of our discussion; while what you have happening is serious it is a whole other issue from the concept that schools are not teaching what they should be which is the point ..I believe.. Wayne was making.

Re: Hand Tied [message #58409 is a reply to message #58408] Tue, 06 June 2006 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shane is currently offline  Shane
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I don't know that having direct input to the state would help matters any. But, I'm not sure how the district is funded to be honest. High-ass taxes for sure. At this point they want to consolidate or close most of the small schools. To give you an exaple of budgets, my mother didn't get a raise for the last 6-7 years she worked there. After 30 odd years of teaching she was making $30k/year. She was the second highest paid teacher there. If it has to do with education the budgets are voted down or trimmed clear down. But if it has to do with athletics, well they'll find a way to make it happen. The football team needed new equipment and an updated field as did the baseball team several years ago. When we still lived there my son was using the same books I had 20 years ago, and they were old then.

My mother related a story about a new teacher they got this last year. Fresh out of college, had the typically 2-3 month struggle time getting situated, then figured it out. Kids had warmed up to her, she was pushing the curriculum farther than was expected, but had one problem child in the class. This child was disruptive to the extreme. Sent to the office 3-4 times a week. 2nd grade mind you. Well, this child happened to be one of the local board member's. So guess what happened. They gave her the option of not renewing her contract or her quitting. Because of one kid who couldn't be controlled. By the way, this kid had been homeschooled the the first 3 years because of this very problem. They lost a good, energetic teacher because of someones personal problem. Been that way for that particular board for 40 years.

Problem as I see it is PARENTS should be teaching their kids manners, ethics, etc... It's not the schools job to do it. Maybe to reinforce it, but not initiate it. But many people believe it is the schools job and the schools fault when their children misbehave. As far a religion in the schools--I think it should be kept out as much as possible and where practical. The local group of kids who were Christians when I went to school, met outside before school started to talk and pray. But never in school. The only praying in school was in a huddle in the locker room before a football game, or to yourself before an exam.

Re: Hand Tied [message #58410 is a reply to message #58409] Tue, 06 June 2006 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
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Can't argue with any of that because I think it's all true.
The question of budgets remains this; if you have local control then you have huge amount of duplication of service. That requires more taxes and more problems. Plus there is no oversight when budget managers are incompetent or unethical.
Want my opinion? Sports should be removed from the schools. Like they do in Europe. There they have afterschool clubs for sports and the parents pay as they go. My son plays Football and Lacrosse so I benefit from the subsidised sports programs that others pay for. But I still know it isn't fair.
Discipline; the parents must be brought into the system. There should be bi-monthly parent-administration meetings where disciplinary issues are hammered out. If your kid is screwing up it is brought out at these meetings and you are exposed to the facts. You can rebutt or not but you must address it.
Believe it or not a lot of this was brought on by the teachers unions. They did not want to be forced to discipline students. So they abdicatted their position and now; they have a real problem. In the Catholic High Schools if you are disciplined you must get a detention letter signed by both parents; then you are assigned a day and no matter what goes on that day you must appear at the detention room and sit there until 5:30pm. You can't talk read do homework nothing; just sit and be quiet. The kids hate that so much that they behave.

Re: An interesting point [message #58424 is a reply to message #58406] Tue, 06 June 2006 20:19 Go to previous message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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There is a lot of merit being put on a few issues. The few issues are important? yes of course but those few are not the issues that make good leaders or countries all the time. The few issues people get all rallied up about do however keep the 123+++ all news networks crankin and bankin.

The few rich you speak of may not pay a fair share but there is pretty few of them. What about AMT? in 1969 when it was started it was a lot of money to break into AMT. Now, Never adjusted for inflation it's not as outlandish for couple to have a combined income to get into that bracket.

Everyone who works for the government and schools wants to earn more money. At the very least to keep up with inflation. How do we pay them more and not pay more in taxes? I think taxes are way too high. I think lots of folks who depend on tax dollars for income should be payed more too. just an observation, sorry no answer.

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