:::I don't mind argument to elucidate a point but the same exact sentences are being repeated ad nauseum.:::

apologies. But when the same arguments are presented over and over again... (i.e., I can copy anything I want, I can call it whatever I want, I can use your tm whenever I want, etc) it might be the case that this same argument warrants the same reply. What I have tried to do is enrich the context... by using examples and logic... such as... if we allowed this behaviour unabated what would the forums look like content wise and what impact would that content have on ART's perception, role, and impact in the audio hobby.

I've asked for instance... does ART want to be the home of the copycat? wherein a disaffected consumer (simply because a mfgr would not change or modify his product to the consumer's demand)can then offer copies of the product and use the name and good will of the company. And this is a POLICY issue. ART does and can control the content which is permitted to be posted. Rules are already in place for instance which does not permit the posting of pornographic images (even legal ones).

:::...if there were an actionable issue here one of the thousands of lawyers looking for work would take the case on...:::

Respectfully, this is a parochial view of the law. First thing any good lawyer is going to suggest is that you seek a solution outside of court or filing a lawsuit. And in fact, much of the legal system is set up to seek and encourage solutions to legal disputes before it has to go into a courtroom and before a jury. This is why (in part) you have discovery and often times various pre-trial hearings. And even the judges before trial will hear the basic arguments in chambers and see if he\she can get the parties to some agreement short of having a full blown trial.

And, rather than urging legal action... you should first think of the ramifications... for instance, ART would if any party were to file a legal suit re: some of the matters being discussed.... it would most likely involve Wayne and the ART forum since this is where the events have occurred. Do you really want to saddle Wayne with perhaps some legal expenses when it may be possible to discuss the matters intelligently, consider all the issues and ramifications and adopt a policy that is fair and just?

Another consideration... before urging legal action... as I understand it one moderator (name withheld to respect his privacy) had already quit modding because of his concern about "legal jeopardy" (being named in a suit). So... this can and does have an impact on other people... and we shouldn't cavalier just urge everyone to sue everyone... and especially BEFORE exhausting every other reasonable and practical solution to the crisis at hand.

Make no mistake.. I do have legal counsel who is fully aware of the issues involved here. But rushing into court may not be the best or most economic way of settling any of the relevant issues at stake here.

And... I could post a lot more and can think of a lot more to add in response to your post... but I have to do some christmas shopping...

perhaps I will add some additional thoughts to this post later in the day.

meantime, Merry Christmas to all.

msl

:::And, rather than urging legal action... you should first think of the ramifications... for instance, ART would if any party were to file a legal suit re: some of the matters being discussed.... it would most likely involve Wayne and the ART forum since this is where the events have occurred. Do you really want to saddle Wayne with perhaps some legal expenses when it may be possible to discuss the matters intelligently, consider all the issues and ramifications and adopt a policy that is fair and just?:::

And lest this be misinterpreted as a criticism of Wayne..

he has already weighed in on the issue of trademarks... plese see post number #1450. Armed with that understanding and the realization that Wayne has stated his intent to honor trademarks and other intellectual property... I am much more inclined to seek out a rational, reasoned solution of what issues remain to be settled.

msl

So, I'll say it again in public: call when ever you like, and we can try to sort this out. If you want my number, email me, and I'll send it to you.

MB, actually, in about the year and a half since the disagreement commenced, it has only escalated. Since I am not going to vanish like his last opponent, either it will get settled, or the escalation will likely continue.
cheers,
Douglas

Glad we got that out of the way.
cheers,
Douglas

If you think your threats to escalate the crisis will make me "negotiate" ... please reconsider. There is absolutely no basis to negotiate with you on. I will seek out a resolution of the relevant issues with the owners of this board (where you have been waging your illicit campaign) but I will not negotiate with you to get you to cease doing the things you shouldn't be doing in the first place.

Just as I would not negotiate with a house burgler to get him to stop ripping off my physical possessions nor will I negotiate with those who would misappropiate my intellectual property and free ride on the good will of my company. It will not happen.

We can get along perfectly well (i.e., we can co-exist peacefully) in the audio community if you cease using our name, our goodwill and cease misappropiating our intellectual property.

I have and would wish you well... if you ever decided to take the high road and behave as an honest businessman. If you want to be in the transformer business... well wishes and good luck... but do it as Steve Eddy has previously suggested... on your own merits and reputation NOT on ours.

happy hollidays,

msl

:::I am going to go on digging into old designs,::

I think sometimes there is the mistaken impression that the designs that Doug has been misappropiating for his own gain are... as he keeps saying "old" and with that the inference that they have been abandoned or that they do not represent an ongoing product line. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The designs which he seeks to misappropiate and then hawk on ART... were bought and paid for by me and are a source of income for my family. Just as I would not break into his home and take his money... I would exect that he and everyone else would respect the intellectual property rights of others including mine.

msl

I don't want anything to do with your reputation. Not a single bit. You established it quite thoroughly on RAT, and are living up to it again.

So go and find something else to accuse me of, and I'll find another good reason to laugh at your insanity.
cheers,
Douglas

Don't worry, there are a few that you mistakenly claim to own that are in the que for teardown.

It's all a control isue with you Mike, and when you don't have it, you claim to have it. Which has led us here. You don't have any, and I'm surry that it bugs you, but I don't feel like easing your discomfort even in the slightest.

Which one of my friends are you going to call next, to pump for information and claim to be a friend working on the project with me? It is easy to see what you're about, just look at what you're accusing others of doing to you.
cheers,
Douglas