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Re: 2 B A Drug Addict in NO [message #56871 is a reply to message #56870] Wed, 07 September 2005 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I'm not kidding, not at all. I'm not making a judgement call, just stating the facts. To illustrate, look at the example of the car theft. The law isn't there to protect the victim of the crime, it is there to protect society from theft in general. Police try to catch bad guys and courts punish them as a deterrent, which then is supposed to rid the streets of bad guys. But nothing in that system is there to help the person that had their car stolen. It isn't setup to help individuals.

If you see the Columbine kids shooting and you draw down on one and force him to lay down his weapon, you will be charged with a felony. But at least you might stay alive, and if so, it would have been worth the hassle in court.

My statements aren't about what I think is right or wrong, they are facts about what is. The system isn't set up to protect individuals, it is set up to protect society.

The hurricane created millions of individual tragedies. Lots of people need help. And I hope each and every one is helped. But it is going to take a lot of individual efforts, over and above what the government or any political pundits might promise.

The political posturing makes me sick, from both sides. It makes me sick because it is so full of rhetoric and impossible promises. It's all about what would or should or could have been done if it were done "our" way. Talk, talk, talk.

I think the good news for the hurricane victimns, is that government assistance will be made available, and I think there will be a pretty good amount of it. I think destroyed cities and structures will be rebuilt, maybe some things will be different, but I think people will make good.

And I think there will be plenty of individual assistance too, in this case. It is an extraordinary circumstance. But my point is that government is not setup to take care of each of us individually, for right or wrong, it just isn't. That's why it's really good to donate at times like these, because even after the government payouts, there still isn't going to be enough to take care of everyone. There never is.

I don't think it's reasonable for a political party to spin this, or for anyone to turn this human tragedy into a political talking point. I just really don't like that, maybe it's just me.


Re: 2 B A Drug Addict in NO [message #56872 is a reply to message #56871] Wed, 07 September 2005 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I think I see something here. It appears that you contend that somehow the government is seperate from the governed and as a result we; the governed, must somehow percieve the various sections and hierarchies of governmental administration as an impediment to accomplishing our rights and our function as citizens.
It almost seems as if the government you see is an alien organisation constructed to control issues in our lives that we can control ourselves and to greater effect.
It also appears as if you feel they do us a favor when they in fact do supply the physical and philosophical resources they are commissioned for.
The simple reply is we pay taxes for these services; thats what we are paying for.
Forget the real economics behind government funding; too much to approach now; but we pay in fees; in price controls; in personal time and responsibilities....the list goes on and on. This government does not support or generate its own funding; we pay it to serve our needs.
That makes it a job; one that the elected choose to strive for. They get paid in many ways and as a result; they have responsibilities. You taking them off the hook figuratively changes nothing. If I send a speaker to you to be re-built and you screw it up; are you responsible?
All that talk about how they are not serving you; then who are they serving? I admitt it gets more baffling.
As far as the system; what system do you mean? The fact that the Police do not have the resources and ability to chase after every stolen vehicle doesn't mean they are not supposed to do it. Reality; in Jersey City the stolen vehicles were so numeropus insurance co. would no longer write policies for them. The police put in a mobile unit( taking men and equipment away from other issues) and cut the theft in half. Simple manpower allocation.
Eliminate the drug laws and make drugs a medical issue and free up all those resources to do policing and see what you get.
Thats my point; these things are addressed as well as they can be with limited funding; but no one advocates you carry a piece and shoot anyone you suspect of stealing cars.
It is the responsibility of the citzens to force those in office to do their jobs; not suggest they are not accountable.
Anyone who thinks that the complete destruction of one of our large cities requires no involvement on the part of the Federal Government needs to surrender their voters registration card.
I am pretty happy with our state and local government. It's safe and comfortable here and as you saw on 9/11 the politicians are capable and responsible. Whats going on down there my friend?

Re: 2 B A Drug Addict in NO [message #56873 is a reply to message #56872] Wed, 07 September 2005 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
I grew up in a country with a socialist system. I have a healthy distrust of government, like our founding fathers here. THe less the better. Nand I didn;t spend all these years settling down here to live in a society where everyone wants a handout from government either. The America I know is better than that. We fix thngs ourselves, as small communities, and ultimately as one big community. We don;t rely on some mealy mouthed bureaucrat to tell us what to do or give us directions.
-akhilesh

Re: 2 B A Drug Addict in NO [message #56874 is a reply to message #56873] Wed, 07 September 2005 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Then you better vote Democratic ticket because under the Republicans the Government has expanded three-fold.
The bureaucrat is supposed to be working for us; we tell them what to do. Why is that hard to phathom?
I had an epiphany earlier that I think explains this serious dichotomy in perception of what our government does and is.
When I was younger I lived in a very exclusive area of New York called Great Neck. I wasn't wealthy, I rented, specifically in order to send my daughter to their schools. They have a school system that is rated in the top 10% of public schools in the U.S.
I worked per diem for the school in order to acqaint myself with the quality and methodology they favored in order to reach that level of ability.
There were several reasons for the excellence of their schools.
The oversight committees were an agregate of parents/teachers and administration personell. The parents were extremely involved in this process and believe me when I tell you there was accountability there.
Even with the strength of the Teachers Unions they still had to answer to the school boards and the oversight committees. If a teacher slacked off even for a second they had a monitor installed and the teacher was assigned a mentor. The administration was held to the same standards.
The school system in my town now does not have this system inplace. While they are not bad; they are nowhere near what Great Neck was. The parents are not as involved and the administration has a hands off policy that excludes people from participation. The people that live here are natives; most of them grew up here and so did their parents. So they feel the schools are what they are and cannot be changed. They are fine they say. Why? Because they have never been exposed to what a school should be.
I think that is the Dis-Connect here. People settle for government behaviour in parts of this country that is inexcusable because they have no reference with which to compare how their officials should be behaving. With poor leadership;..of course you think you have to do it yourself. After all; if you don't, who will??
We need to share some of the better governed places with those suffering from inept and incompetent leadership; so they can see what their leaders should be capable of.
I believe that explains the complete bafflement at the attitudes expressed where the government is not accountable; nor is able to do their job correctly.

Re: 2 B A Drug Addict in NO [message #56876 is a reply to message #56865] Thu, 08 September 2005 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
A leader is someone who takes a group of people in a specific situation and motivates them to accomplish a goal.
Do you think a politician is a leader?
Good politicians ar supposed to serve, to take the people's money and decide how to spend it. THey are ultimately accountable to the people, who are their "bosses".
That's why we have elections, to replace our public servants with others if we are not happy. I don;t think a public servant is a leader at all. At worst, he/he is a dishonest crook who steals, at best he / she is a public servant who performs his/her duties with a sense of service.
-akhilesh

Re: 2 B A Drug Addict in NO [message #56880 is a reply to message #56876] Thu, 08 September 2005 16:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
O'Kay so if the President is a public servant how did he manage to send an army to Iraq on his own recognisance?
What exactly is the job of the President in your eyes if I may ask?
What would you say are his duties and responsibilities?

Re: 2 B A Drug Addict in NO [message #56893 is a reply to message #56880] Sat, 10 September 2005 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I am surprised there is no response my friend AK. What is the Presidents job and responsibility because after this thread I don't see what you all think he is there for.

Re: 2 B A Drug Addict in NO [message #56896 is a reply to message #56880] Sun, 11 September 2005 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Exactly as defined in the US Constitution.
I wouldn't call the duties of the President, as defined in our Constitution, those of a leader. The PResident leads the armed forces & executive branch of our govt, yes, but he doesn;t really lead teh American people, at least not in my opinion, no matter who he is. IN times of emergency, like 911, or the Civil War, he can be a cerntral point of rallying and energy, but thats about it. Ultimately, we are responsoble for our own fate.

Also, the President can't just go around making war. There are checks & balances. They were adhered to in going to war on Iraq, I believe.
Otherwise, why is Congress continually funding this war?
-akhilesh


Re: 2 B A Drug Addict in NO [message #56899 is a reply to message #56896] Mon, 12 September 2005 06:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
AK; if I reproduce the exact definition of the Presidents powers and resposibility as written in the Constitution; and that spells out his duties as a leader will that change your mind?
Remmember the Constitution was written to be interpreted by law; so the duties of the President have been enumerated throughout our history. But they are concrete and they are easily described; so how about it?

Re: 2 B A Drug Addict in NO [message #56900 is a reply to message #56899] Mon, 12 September 2005 07:20 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
I just read teh COnstitution. Nowehere does it say the president is leader of the American people.
He is the leader of the executive branch of the governmment, and has certain powers, but that's it.
I view politicians, best case, as public servants, and worst case as crooked scunbags who'd sell their gradnmothers for "power".
-akhilesh

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