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Re: Ridicules in your mind not mine... [message #56771 is a reply to message #56769] Fri, 26 August 2005 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I only respond to the 9/11 thing once more. We are fighting people of Iraqi citizenship who don't happen to like being invaded and occupied by a foriegn power; as any other peoples of integrity would. You want to call freedom fighters terrorists call the invaders holy warriors against Musilimit peoples. Same silliniess.
Iraq holds the second largest oil reserves in the world; little more than 2% I would say. Why not invade Saudi Arabia? Why not invade every oil rich nation; it seems a little off don't it?
Why or why we are not dependent on foreign oil isn't the subject of this discussion well do that some other time; stay focused.
Why terrorists enact terror is anyones guess why have there always been terrorists? In Spain they want Basque seperatism; in Italy they are communists;who knows about every terror group, not me.
Fighting nice civilians who don't want us in their country..well; yes as a matter of fact, re-read my earlier post. They couldn't do it without the help of those nice civilians.
Throwing the military into the field prematurely was a tactical error that I am sure even you have realised. What does that have to do with the sanctions?
Iraq has most of the worlds highest concentrations of high grade crude. When Saddam nationalised the oil fields in 1972 the U.S and U.K. lost billions of dollars in revenue and equipment. This war is about getting that back.
Ask where the 6 billion dollars in expropriated U.N. funds have disappeared through the U.S. administrative body governing the dispensing of those funds after the occupation.
Bush makes a phone call to Sistani today to call for some cooperation? Begging is more like it.
On May 22 2003 the U.N. officially ended sanctions against Iraq with resolution 1483 calling for a developement fund for Iraq dubbed,"DFI", administered by the U.S. U.K. coalition. 1483 called for a provisionally monitored accountability board which was promptly disregarded by the coalition administration. Since then some 20 billion dollars remain unaccounted for. All passing through the hands of the U.S. agency of administration. Funny how they try to smokescreen the oil for food issue while pilfering untold millions.
Sorry; I don't usually get into specifics because I don't really want to have to be barraged by neo-con propoganda parrotted from right-wing talk show nitwits. And the bandwidth is exceeded..to be continued.

Re: Ridicules in your mind not mine... [message #56772 is a reply to message #56771] Sat, 27 August 2005 06:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Regarding terrorists in Iraq. You really are self delusional. Sorry don't mean to be nasty but there is no other explanation. We are not fighting citizens that don't want us in their country. We are fighting terrorists that were in Iraq and are also coming from other countries. Not citizens. Why did so many people risk their lives and vote in the elections?

If the terrorist attacked Spain because they want Basque seperatism.Why did Spain pull out of Iraq as a result? You forgot London. Why did they attack there?

I believe the United States gets 2% of it's oil from Iraq. My number may be off by some but in any case it is a small amount of the oil we use. May point was that if we were after oil why pick on Iraq when we could pick on Saudi Arabia (Or Iran for if that makes you happier) which has more oil. Wouldn't that make more sense if we wanted to start a war over oil?

"When Saddam nationalised the oil fields in 1972 the U.S and U.K. lost billions of dollars in revenue and equipment. This war is about getting that back. "

If the above statement were true. Why not take it during the first Gulf War? A perfect opportunity then wouldn't you say? I'll help you out here. We didn't because the your accusation is false.


To say that we prematurely sent our troops into the field is ludicrous as I said above. What does that have to do with sanctions? Read my response to this question above. Don't feel like repeating myself again.

Money unaccounted for doesn't mean the US stole it. Besides this has nothing to do with our discussion.

"neo-con propoganda parrotted from right-wing talk show nitwits" Wasn't it you that posted in another place on this site that insults have no place here?


I NOTICED THAT YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE???



We are mostly in aggreement. [message #56773 is a reply to message #56770] Sat, 27 August 2005 06:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
I agree with much of what you say. It may be a pipe dream to think that Bush can bring peace to the region. You're right, but that should not stop him or the world from trying to bring peace. And the people that are against the attempt are the ones to look out for IMO.

"Are we better off now. Do I feel safer."

Of course not there is a war going on. Of course things will get worse during a war. The coalition forces have captured or killed many terrorists. In the end I believe the world will be a safer place. This is providing the liberals in the US don't succeed with their propaganda and force a pull out of Iraq before it is stabilized. However as you know, there are no guarantees. But the free world has to try. IMO.

Re: We are mostly in aggreement. [message #56776 is a reply to message #56773] Sat, 27 August 2005 08:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Well then we have some job ahead of us. Next stop North Korea; then Ten or Twelve contries in Africa then we go to South America. Think our mission of conversion can accomplish all this? Or might we stop in the places that have oil? I wager we concentrate all this missionary fervor in those petroleum rich nations and pretty much disregard the rest of the bad guys.

See post above regarding oil (NT) [message #56777 is a reply to message #56776] Sat, 27 August 2005 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
NT

Re: Ridicules in your mind not mine... [message #56780 is a reply to message #56772] Sat, 27 August 2005 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Well you still have not answered my point either. How does such a large and well organised insurgency function without the help of the people.
So I will make you a deal; since I asked first if you answer me than I'll answer you; it's only fair.
Second; sorry but insulting the right wing media is only fair since they do more than their share of it.

"No one ever said it would be quick or easy" !?!?!? [message #56782 is a reply to message #56754] Sat, 27 August 2005 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
Messages: 912
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Stop listening to Limbaugh - every word from his mouth is a lie.

# On the March 16, 2003, broadcast of CBS' Face the Nation, Cheney stated: "I think [the war will] go relatively quickly." When host Bob Schieffer pressed the vice president to offer a more precise estimate of how long the war would take, Cheney replied: "Weeks rather than months." On NBC's Meet the Press the same day, Cheney stated, "my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators [by the Iraqi people]."

# In a February 7, 2003, appearance at Aviano Air Base in Italy, Rumsfeld projected that the Iraq war "could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."

# In a February 13, 2002, Washington Post op-ed, Ken Adelman, at the time a member of the Defense Policy Board, stated: "I believe demolishing Hussein's military power and liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk. Let me give simple, responsible reasons: (1) It was a cakewalk last time; (2) they've become much weaker; (3) we've become much stronger; and (4) now we're playing for keeps."

They're are dozens more; remembered by those of us who don't swallow every revisionist lie spewed by the cabal of criminals in this administration and their all too willing media accomplices.

Re: Ridicules in your mind not mine... [message #56784 is a reply to message #56780] Sat, 27 August 2005 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr. Vinyl is currently offline  Mr. Vinyl
Messages: 5
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Well, I disagree that it's a large and well organized insurgency. But for the sake of this debate I will answer the question by saying with the help from Syria and Iran.

Now your turn.

Re: "No one ever said it would be quick or easy" !?!?!? [message #56786 is a reply to message #56782] Sat, 27 August 2005 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr. Vinyl is currently offline  Mr. Vinyl
Messages: 5
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
I don't listen to Limbaugh on any regular basis. Stop listening to NPR every word there is a lie.

Cheney was talking about the initial war to take Iraq which I believe took weeks and not months. He doesn't say the hostilities will be over in weeks and we will have a democratic system set up. Nor did he say hostilities will end and we will be out of Iraq in weeks. So taking him out of context does not help with our discussion.

Re: Ridicules in your mind not mine... [message #56790 is a reply to message #56784] Sat, 27 August 2005 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
You mean they hide there during the day then come out at night? My turn to say come on; I repeat.
They need mobility/Food/shelter/information/money and it all must be done in secret. That would indicate to me a large amount of help from the population. I sure as hell don't see them running across the desert from Syria everytime they need to do an operation.
No; the people want our money and us out of there pure and simple.
Even offering huge rewards has not gotten us any more information than we were able to find out ourselves.
No; The people do not like their conquerors and want them gone.
Vietnam all over again.

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