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Senate [message #56314]

Tue, 24 May 2005 05:41

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

I woke today and for the first time in a while I was proud of my Govt. Disregarding the little child antics of the Frist Crowd, who threatened to shut down the Senate if they could not get their way; some adult's amongst them rose up and did what adults do.. they negotiated and compromised.
Way to go guys.

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As much as I hate to do this.... [message #56315 is a reply to message #56314]

Tue, 24 May 2005 10:40

Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

It was the Democrats that were acting like babies and stretching the rules to fillabuster judges. Up until this time judges got a fair up and down vote. Even if the Republicans despised the judge nominated from a liberal president they still gave them an up or down vote in fairness. Example would be Ruth Giensburg. She was given a vote within six weeks of her nomination buy Clinton. By the way it was the Democrats threatening to shut down the gov. if they didn't have their way. Not the Republicans. It was the Democrats acting like babies because they hate bush and can't come to grips with the fact that they lost another election. There is shame on the Republicans this morning for making such a deal with the democrats. None of them live in my area but if they did they would never get my vote again. Hopefully they will pay the price for selling out the people that voted for them.

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Re: As much as I hate to do this.... [message #56317 is a reply to message #56315]

Tue, 24 May 2005 14:51

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Well; the polls taken this morning concerning this episode have 24% for the Republicans
26% for the Democrats
And 54% positive for the American people. Somebody is looking at this the right way.
I would debate the whole thing about who's a child but let me ask you this, have you read an opinion by either of the two Judges that will be confirmed immediately?
I hope you don't work for a living because your rights are going down the toilet.

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Re: As much as I hate to do this.... [message #56318 is a reply to message #56317]

Tue, 24 May 2005 15:04

Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

Polls are useless as you know. The judges are conservative. I wouldn't expect someone that has liberal ideas to like them. It's not the point. My response was to your comments about the republicans shutting down gov. and acting like children. Now it seems you don't want to debate this point. I don't blame you. It's hard to debate when the facts are against you. I would have to assume that if you didn't want to discuss this subject you wouldn't have mentioned it. That said, I have been down this road before. It's a dead end. Frankly I do like to discuss politics but the liberals get very angry and nasty. And I just don't need the stress. Not that you have here. I have been trying to stay out of this forum because it harbors hard feelings to discuss politics. You have helped me out with some of my posts so lets just agree to disagree.

Hope there are no hard feelings.

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Re: As much as I hate to do this.... [message #56319 is a reply to message #56318]

Tue, 24 May 2005 16:10

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Oh no; I have no problem debating with gentlemen; or not gentlemen except if it degenerates into a fact attack at ever increasing volume.
You are obviously a reasonable man but I must offer one correction.
I am and have been for twenty years a registered Republican. It is a matter of public record and I vote in every primary and have in the past done campaigning for the party.

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Well, then I guess we think more alike than I thought. (NT) [message #56320 is a reply to message #56319]

Tue, 24 May 2005 16:31

Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

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Re: Well, then I guess we think more alike than I thought. (NT) [message #56321 is a reply to message #56320]

Tue, 24 May 2005 17:51

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Mr. Vinyll guy; sorry I didn't mean to cut my response short, I hit the post button accidently. I don't want you to think I don't take your post seriously because I do take it seriously.
The problem with the debates that revolve around this current administration is the sides are so polarised that they lose sight of the real issues and try to reduce them to a succession of chains of what each side calls "Facts".
It starts by both parties rushing to their respective websites and gathering their forces of facts. Lining them up to do battle. But facts are elusive things; they depend on all of the circumstances that surround the issue including past and present conditions. When one side or the other pontificates they of course use the facts that support their side and conveniently isolate each set of conditions to fit their facts.
So consequently it becomes a Fact Attack without any adjustments for the prevailing environment that produced these facts.
What I'm trying to say is, just like there is a reference standard in audio; there is a right and wrong in politics. When these positions are reduced to facts they lose the ultimate sense of responsibility that comes with having a personal philosophy and taking a position.
In this situation the Senate has for ever recognised that the position of the majority is tentative and the winds blow both ways. That is why we comprimise and do not let the majority lord it over the minority.
That sense is missing here. Clinton lost many more appointments due to backdoor negotiations and compromise; and thats the way it should be. This Frist explaining to the people that he will take no prisoners and will have his way is contradictory to the spirit of our govt.
No fact can alter or correct that point of view. So when a real man like John M'Cain steps up to the plate and says enough, that is how our govt should work. It's called leadership and only a man would know how to accomplish that. That is the child reference. Even if he had the personal prescence to throw his weight around, he should have had the same to be gracious towards the minority party in public. Boasting and bragging is childlike.
Thats why it was great to see M'Cain step in and settle this. A real american who served his country and speaks low but carries a big stick.

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Well, see, that's what you get for watching Fox all the time [message #56323 is a reply to message #56315]

Tue, 24 May 2005 18:54

wunhuanglo
Messages: 912
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

Because the fact of the matter is that over 60 of Clinton's nominees did not get a vote in the Republican Senate, because they never got out of Committee because they never got a hearing.

Good job with Ginsburg, though.

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Re: Well, see, that's what you get for watching Fox all the time [message #56325 is a reply to message #56323]

Tue, 24 May 2005 19:07

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

There go those facts with just a few omitted for brevities sake. Funny how some of those facts get left out ain't it?

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Re: Well, then I guess we think more alike than I thought. (NT) [message #56326 is a reply to message #56321]

Tue, 24 May 2005 20:39

Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

I'm sorry dude, but I couldn't disagree more. Facts are facts. The fact is that there has been only one other judge in history that has been fillerbustered and that was in the 1960's. Basically the Democrats are sore losers that can't come to grips with the fact that most people disagree with their views. I vote for Republicans not because I want them to compromise with the democrats. But because I think the Democrats and their policies are destroying our country. I don't want compromise. I want the Republicans to stick to their guns and pass a Conservative agenda. I think the most important thing that the Republicans can do is appoint conservative judges. Not judges that disregard the law and make it up to suit their own agenda. This is one of the single most important problems that the US faces today. I want judges that apply the law not make it up. It's unconstitutional to do anything else. What the vast majority of Republicans were trying to do with this issue in not childish in anyway but brave and courageous IMO. I don't want our representatives in government to stick their finger in the wind and go which ever way the wind or the polls tell them to go. I want the representatives that I vote for to take the higher ground. To stick by their convictions and to do what's right even if it means they will lose power in the future. I think this is what Mr. Frist was trying to do. John McCain is a fraud. He represents himself as a Republican but in fact is a Democrat. No he is not doing the right thing. He is preparing to run for the presidency again and is pandering to the liberal left. Maybe he will get elected but not with my vote. I want men of conviction not men that pander. In my opinion Mr. Frist is the real American here. Not Mr. McCain. Perhaps Mr. McCain should grow a spine and do what he knows is right for the country not what will win approval of the liberal media.

Sorry but your view on this issue couldn't be more liberal. I find it hard to believe that you are a registered Republican that normally votes Republican. No I don't like everything that GW Bush has done. But I think he is a man of high moral ground that stands by what he thinks is right. Not by what some poll says or by what some people may think of him. Just the kind of leader I want in office.

These are just my views of course. You have every right to disagree. You sound like you're a thinking man. Even though we may not come to the same conclusions. This is good. Hope to have more spirited debate with you in the future.

Mr. Vinyl

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