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Fallujah [message #55972] Tue, 09 November 2004 15:00 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Can't get this info in U.S. of A. but they(whoever they are) say the Iraqi provisional army is a no-show in this fight. Lawrence of Arabia had the same problem trying to motivate these people. Watch the movie and you know all there is to know about this war.

Yasser Arafat is dead [message #55973 is a reply to message #55972] Thu, 11 November 2004 01:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently online  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18749
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Not necessarily related, but Yasser Arafat is dead.

Re: Yasser Arafat is dead [message #55974 is a reply to message #55973] Thu, 11 November 2004 06:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Hopefully the next guy won't come with so much baggage and those people will have a chance for some peace in their lives. This is off the track but I was a sittin' and ponderin'; we all think that the situation in effect at this time is permanent, it will always be this way just altered slightly here and there. Look at the pyramids; they thought that too. I wonder if some day a guy will be digging through a pile of dirt and stumble upon the Washington Monument. Like that scene in Planet of The Apes.
Those people in the Mideast were at one time the greatest civilisation on earth.

Peace [message #55978 is a reply to message #55974] Wed, 17 November 2004 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike.e is currently offline  Mike.e
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Unfortunately peace isnt possible due to a compromise of the palestinians being impossible. I dont expect anything to change in this area.

What about africa? I guess theres crisis' happening over there,but our news only shows it when something huge happens,then they soon forget.(kinda hyperbolic representation_

Re: Peace [message #55979 is a reply to message #55978] Thu, 18 November 2004 06:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
manualbock is currently offline  manualbock
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Registered: May 2009
Esquire
There's no oil in Africa; just lots of killing.

Re: Fallujah [message #55980 is a reply to message #55972] Sat, 20 November 2004 05:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
elektratig is currently offline  elektratig
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Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Urban warfare is a tremendously difficult and dangerous task. Whether you are, as a political matter, "for" or "against" the US effort in Iraq, there is no doubt that the US forces have a done a tremendous job mastering the military science of urban warfare -- just compare, for example, the performance of the US in Fallujah with the performance of the Russian military in Grozny in January 1995, in which the forces that the Russians initially sent into Grozny were ambushed and largely wiped out. All indications are that the US military closely studied Russia's Grozny operations and drew valuable lessons from it.

Particularly in this context, it is understandable that the newly-formed Iraqi Defense Forces (IDF) are not yet up to the standards of the US military -- no other army in the world is. I have not seen a definitive analysis of the performance of the IDF in Fallujah, but the buzz seems to be that they are getting better.

For these sorts of subjects, http://www.globalsecurity.org is an excellent resource.

Russian Disaster in Grozny 12/31/94 - 01/03/95: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2002/MOUTThomas.htm

Overview of Operation Dawn: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/oif-phantom-fury-fallujah.htm

US Assessment of IDF in Fallujah: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/11/mil-041119-afps01.htm




Africa [message #55981 is a reply to message #55979] Sat, 20 November 2004 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
elektratig is currently offline  elektratig
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Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Assuming that by "Africa" you mean Sudan/Darfur, I'd point out that the US is, to my knowledge, the only major country in the world that has officially declared the situation "genocide". The UN certainly has not done so.

Re: Africa [message #55982 is a reply to message #55981] Sat, 20 November 2004 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
True; and a sorry situation that is for the U.N. The condition of labeling the conflict as"Genocide", does not, contrary to popular belief, require an intervention by the Security Council; it opens the door for sanctions and requires the members to provide the strongest possible response to the accused parties. That call for sanctions was predicated by Congress due to pressure from Conservative Christian Groups;( due to Christians warring with Muslims); Black Caucaus Leaders and the Jewish Lobby, not the Exucutive Branch. I would point out that Colin Powell has a supremely intelligent understanding of the requirements for statesmanship in the region. Too bad the willfull little boy president we have refused to allow Mr. Powell to do his job. There is a potential vote of no confidence directed towards Kofi Annan resulting from the food for oil scandal and the sexual harrasement scandal at the U.N.. I personally do not believe he is very effective and should resign. J.R.

Re: Africa [message #55983 is a reply to message #55982] Sat, 20 November 2004 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
elektratig is currently offline  elektratig
Messages: 348
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
MB,

I'm not sure what to make of your post.

1. The House passed the resolution by 422-0 and the Senate by unanimous voice vote. I'm not sure who "lobbied" for the resolution, but it does not appear that support was limited to specific interest groups. What is "the Jewish lobby" anyway?

2. As far as I'm aware, after completing a review of the situation Powell concluded that genocide was occuring and the President promptly endorsed his conclusion as that of the Administration. I have no idea what you mean when you say that the President "refused to allow Mr. Powell to do his job."

3. At all events, even assuming the Administration was somehow pressured into declaring genocide when it would have preferred not to (which seems to be what you are suggesting?), the willingness of this administration to make the declaration stands in stark contrast to the shameful performance of the Clinton administration with respect to Rwanda. In that case, the administration (a) went through embarrasing contortions to avoid declaring "genocide", and (b) encouraged the UN (which admittedly needed little or no encouraging)to avoid taking any action, even though there was a peacekeeping force on the ground that, according to its commander, could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

4. Frankly, I would be perfectly happy if the US warned Sudan tomorrow that, if the acts of genocide did not stop in, say, two weeks or a month, the Sudanese government would be taken out with cruise missles. However, the "international community" and the dailykos crowd would doubtless erupt with angry denunciations that the war-mad US was unilaterally attacking a Muslim country. My heart goes out to the residents of Darfur, but I fear that their only recourse is to the UN and the international community, which will not act.

5. At least we agree that Kofi Annan should resign, although I (as you might suspect) believe that the problems in the UN run far deeper.

On Rwanda, see Philip Gourevich, We Wish To Inform You That Tomorrow We Will Be Killed With Our Families -- a horrifying and excellent book.

e

Re: Africa [message #55984 is a reply to message #55983] Sat, 20 November 2004 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Hi Electratig; The Jewish Lobby consists of the representatives of the interests of the state of Israel who's function in Washington is to promote and articulate their positions on world events. The concept of another Muslim state breeding and supporting terrorist causes next door motivates their position.
Reffering to Colin Powell; he is the only member of the administration who holds the respect of all of the governments involved and had an opportunity to broker some kind of peace initiative; his exact approach and plan will be revealed in his memoirs. The administration had no exposure on this so naturally they trumpeted their support.
I am sorry but I can't reply to the Clinton Presidencies position on Rwanda. That was a very different situation and we would ultimately be reduced to quoting facts from self designated authorities and bloggers with agendas.
As far as bombing the Sudanese government; our buddies in ,"The Coalition", Pakistan and Russia would not support it in the Security Council, considering they do a lot of business there.
Thanks for the book recomendation; I have heard Mr. Gourevich interviewed on several occasions but sad to say I have not read his book.

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