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Competitive edge [message #55941] Thu, 28 October 2004 09:23 Go to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
How many of you remember America in the fifties? Every automobile was American and so was every television, radio and sound system. Imports were considered cheap, and this is largely because they were.

How 'bout the seveties? We still had our pride on, but the truth was we were getting beat. Japanese and European import products were simply better. With smug complacency, we didn't even see it coming. We drove our piece of crap cars with pluged up large displacement engines making a measly 125HP and getting 14MPG. Meanwhile, the Germans were exporting the Porsche 930 and the Japanese were sending over Mazda RX-7s and Sony televisions and video recorders.

By the nineties, we started waking up but we'd already lost most of the market share in several industries. So I ask you, what have we learned?

I've been dealing with a bunch of folks who evidently haven't. They want to be seen as a leader, but they are doing the same old tired dance. Sell whatcha got and don't waste money with product development 'til the market just won't bear it anymore. What they arrogantly forget is that competitive forces are then allowed to introduce better products and yank the market right out from under their feet. And rightfully so.

The egotistical snake oil salesman is the same kind of deal. He sells his products until people discover real medicines to replace them with. Of course, the snake oil salesmen fight hard to give the impression that their elixers are worthy. Magic elixers come in different flavors and some of them aren't even medicines - Look at what Edison did to convince people that Tesla's AC current was more dangerous than Edison's DC. What a load of crap. We shouldn't celebrate Edison's multiple patents; Most were insignificant anyway. We should have kicked his ass for being a manically obsessive lying sack of shit.

I'm just really tired of that sort of thing. I've seen too much snake oil and too many ho-hum products touted as the end-all and beat-all. Rather than actually make something with a competitive edge, these snake oil salemen load claims to get patents on insignificant ideas and fabricate performance data to sell their ho-hum products. It's bullshit, stamping out copies of the same old stuff but giving it twelve sylable hyphenated names. I guess the idea is that if it sounds fancy, it must be really high tech stuff.

It's no big deal in the scheme of things, I mean, nothing really is. But I felt like ranting a minute about the BS in the industry. End of rant.

Re: Competitive edge [message #55942 is a reply to message #55941] Sat, 30 October 2004 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
It's raining here and there is time after the football game to reply to this essay with the attention it desrves. Yes the fifties were great times for manufacturing, the result of the baby boomers having the advantages of the G.I. bill allowing them to buy houses and go to school to upgrade their standard of living. The war created research faciclities government funded that shared data with the universities. Transportation and electronics drove the engine of production and as a result, millions of people in this country upgraded their standard of living to an unprecedented level. These were men who had fought in the war and had pride in their work and a sense of humble authority. Labor unions eneabled millions to work safely and securely knowing they would have steady work and a comfortable retirement.
Wall Street hated this situation. They called it the Union Tax and created think tanks designed to train managers in divisive tactics designed to eliminate organised labor. The white collar middle-management refused to accept the Plumbers and Engineers living as well as they were. Then the work force changed. Females entered in huge numbers weakening the power of unions, after all, whats at stake if your hubby is already doing well. And management delighted in these changes knowing the workforce of the future would be easily manipulated and cowed by aggressive tactics.
The manufacturing organisations needed to provide the street with bottom line figures designed to impress short term investors after the de-regulation of the banking and investment industries under Reagan. Short sighted Managers immune from responsibility made stupid descisions concerning updating manufacturing methods due to the tax structure that favored the immediate gain over long term. There was no money for R&D; too long term and expensive, outsource it. Except now they have the patents and methodology. Eliminate the workers organisations so that there was no power base to threaten the status quo. Allow large amounts of politically motivated groups to invade the education system; dumbing it down so the emerging graduates are more easily lead. Cut funding and strike fear into the universities forcing them to toe the line.
If the will of the people orders clean air and safe water for their children; move the factories somewhere where they care less about the health and safety of the workers and pay them squat. Before you leave, pretend you can offer a chance to continue to produce jobs if veryone agrees to cut pay and work harder with less safe envirenment. Then if those who suffer egregrious harm try to use the courts for redress; force tort reform through the Legislature under false pretense of abuse. Let the richest 1% make and keep 30% of all the money and threaten to eliminate jobs if you complain.
So; who can blame the companies like Eminence who just want to toddle along making their most cost effective products and carrying the bottom line so they can keep showing good on the ticker and fill those 401K's(Which is the biggest scam and pyramid scheme in history) after all; they too will soon need to go somewhere where they can destroy the envirenment with impunity and not pay taxes's.
And yes it is a big deal. When they take a poll on CNN and 70% of the people polled(Over 100) do not even know there was a prescription drug bill passed that will affect everone, why should we expect any different. The voters could care less about issues, so we are stuck with hacks and shills as representation and a media that writes scripts instead of reporting; and they are all in bed and the voters excersize the most precious right in history as a frivolous mockery of deluded nonsense. Thank You and good night.
Do one thing; Replay any old speech from JFK then fade into our current spin jockey and weep. J.R.

Re: Competitive edge [message #55943 is a reply to message #55942] Sat, 30 October 2004 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
What gets me is when you can get away with it, that's one thing but when the competition is strong, you can't. American products in the 50's and 60's were the best, but by the seventies, they weren't. American companies realized that by 1985 or so, and the car market gradually pulled out by doing some catch up on R&D and eventually making some really fine automobiles. But the electronics industry never recovered, with exception of computers.

So forgetting about politics or trade unions, even free trade capitalism sets the bar here. If a company's product isn't as good as its competition, it is at a disadvantage. The company can sell on reputation and cultivated image, but that fades quick when its product gets stomped. That doesn't happen very quickly because people are slow to change and move out of their comfort zones. But when a trend starts, it usually snowballs. Maybe in the past, a company could hang on to the status quo for a few years, but today, it cannot. So I think that sitting smugly on an old product in a technology oriented market is not good.

Re: Competitive edge [message #55944 is a reply to message #55943] Sat, 30 October 2004 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
So Wayne; in terms of the intersection of government and business and the quality of american auto manufacturing; the bailout of Chrysler by the taxpayer, the tax incentives offered by southern senate districts of prominent republican legislatures. The protectionist legislation rammed through congress in the 80's that bought time for GM? The majority of parts for these American cars come from ...Where? My point is you cannot seperate the two. Free trade capitalism is a myth. Will a product that is better made sell? Sure if the price is right. How do we do that? When Wall Street demands a return far in excess of reasonable in order to fund all those private pension mutuals and huge CEO payrolls.
Can American initiative succeed in the Electronics industry. No. Not without trade protection legislation; a mandate to free up the Universty research Depts. Tax funded private R&D. Of course that all ties in with politics. Look at how a drug is brought to market. It is simplistic to think initiative and innovation can still produce a profit independant of political affiliation. Can a small operator succeed, sure look at yourself; but in the end if the drivers in your speakers became too expensive what would happen; you would go back to computors and the world wide electronic communications network.

Re: Competitive edge - too much nostalgia? [message #55945 is a reply to message #55943] Sat, 30 October 2004 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
Messages: 912
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I’m not too sure that US products of the 50’s-60’s were so exceptional. The standards for cars, even then, were Rolls-Royce and Mercedes (not to mention Lamborghini), and we didn’t produce anything that could compete with them.

In optics, particularly in the area of cameras, the Germans ruled. The Swiss did and do make the finest mechanical watches. There was no US wine industry. The luxury ocean liner was still largely a European phenomenon. The finest guns were made in Belgium and Italy (many still are).

The Germans led the world in precision machine tools. The best gold jewelry was made in Italy. In fact, the Italians made the largest number of refrigerators in the world into the 70’s.

The history of US industrial production seems to that of making serviceable items affordably. We made the Model T, not the Silver Ghost. We built Levittown, not castles. We made lots of steel for all those cars, that rusted through in three years.

We certainly dominated the world's industrial production, there's no doubt about that, but I'm not too sure about exceptional quality.

Re: Competitive edge - too much nostalgia? [message #55946 is a reply to message #55945] Sat, 30 October 2004 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Hey; watch that Levittown thing thats my hometown. I lived On Swan Lane three blocks over from Bill O'Rielly from the O'Rielly factor.

Seen this? [message #55947 is a reply to message #55946] Sat, 30 October 2004 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
Messages: 912
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120529/

Re: Seen this? [message #55948 is a reply to message #55947] Sat, 30 October 2004 16:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Yeah; it was on cable for months. My mom says there really weren't any orgies; "thats a lot of hooey", she claims. It actually was a good place to grow up. The beach was 2 miles south and there were untold numbers of kids running around. I used to hitch to the beach every day in the summer at age 14 up. And we had these private pools that only the community could use, there were four of them, one in each quadrant.

Re: Competitive edge - too much nostalgia? [message #55949 is a reply to message #55945] Sat, 30 October 2004 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Point taken. You may be right.

But really, I think automobiles made in America in the 50's and 60's were some of the best in the world. I love German cars too, and have a long history with them. But I'm not particularly impressed with any German automobiles until the 70's. I don't dislike them, but I do prefer the American muscle more. I'm talking about comparisons like the Ford GT40 or Cobra to the Porsche 911 of the same era.

Rolls Royce in the 50's and 60's didn't actually compare because it used archaic 1920's technology. What made it special was its craftsmanship, not its performance.

In another industry, I think American electronics were some of the best in the 50's and 60's. Sure, other companies made fine goods, but American products were what everyone wanted. American televisions were the best. There really wasn't a commercial market for computers that wasn't American.

I'm sure you're right about the nostalgia factor. But I do think America was a market leader in several key industries. I also think those industries have become much more competitive, and that it's harder for American companies to stay on top. And that brings me back to the point of what was kinda bugging me when I wrote the initial "Competitive edge" post - I think American companies should be careful about holding back on new technologies. There was a time when companies could wait to introduce technology so that they could keep from having to re-tool. The American V8 engine is a great example. But I think those days are gone, and to hold off on new technology now is to lose a competitive edge. It's like folding with a flush in your hands.

Re: Competitive edge [message #55950 is a reply to message #55944] Sat, 30 October 2004 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18786
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
The problems Chrysler faced in the 80's were a direct result of their not bothering to keep pace with competition. Now their products are some of the best on the market, in my opinion, because they learned not to be complacent. They're an exciting company now, making exciting products. They are able to be competitive. Chrysler can put some of their current models alongside some of their best cars of the 60's and not be ashamed. They sure couldn't have done that in 1982.

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