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Re: The media / corporate monopolies don't decide [message #55486 is a reply to message #55483]

Thu, 17 August 2006 18:28

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Yes but the Stones had to be commercialised first; in London, before you could see them. If clearchannel owned the BBC neither you or me would ever have heard of Mick Jagger.

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Re: The media / corporate monopolies don't decide [message #55492 is a reply to message #55486]

Fri, 18 August 2006 05:48

Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

Totally disagreee, and I`ll illustrate this again with former Yugoslavia situation, an extreme example.
From `77-`79. there are some punk/new wave bands, especially in "western" parts of Yu. Those bands were totally ignored by the radio, TV, recording companies and press, even "sotonized" from time to time like negative example. There`re not many places where you can play, and many concerts were registered like some other shows, etc. One friend of mine (who has punk band 1977. , at the same time like others in London:-) ), actually was forced to bring the texts of the songs in the local Communists party committee - of course, he changed the lyrics a bit for that purpose :-). There`re comissions in recording companies who ordered what can be recorded. Even light politics critique were censored, and those LPs are taxed with special large taxes, and marked with "trash" stickers! And you usually can`t find those LPs almost anywhere. And foreign records were selected, too - Sex Pistols were never published in former Yu, but we all (my high-school company) have their records, haha.
Eventually, a few very good band appeared, one was "Azra"...those guys played every f... day in every f... village and the city. Usually no posters, commercials, anything - just the word from the mouth. This band becomes so huge and popular (despite their sharp and politics lyrics), then one recording company recorded their first LP, 1980.
I remember how I traveled 40km to the another city, where you`d can bought this LP at the time - by auto-stop...whole f... day, there weren`t enough petrol and just a few cars were on the roads. This band have had so big success in former Yu, than THEY started to order the rules of this r`n`r game, some freedom walls was broken, and many smaler new-wave groups recorded their songs, too.
Even then, official TV and radios rarely played this music, but who cared for them, anyway...

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Re: The media / corporate monopolies don't decide [message #55493 is a reply to message #55492]

Fri, 18 August 2006 06:56

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Well sorry but I never heard of them. They are probably good but we won't see them over here.

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Re: The media / corporate monopolies don't decide [message #55494 is a reply to message #55493]

Fri, 18 August 2006 08:14

Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

That`s all you can say? After all that "cry" that some US country band can`t get commercial on some f... radio station(s)?
I just tried to explain to you (smal example) what we went through... Screw the monopolist radio station or TV - I`m the witness that even whole state politics can be changed, even destroyed - if it`s not in people interest - one way or another.
But today, with so many communications ways...
Well, I`ll stop here.

http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/clash/whiteriot.html

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Re: The media / corporate monopolies don't decide [message #55495 is a reply to message #55494]

Fri, 18 August 2006 08:27

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Well the problem is the discussion isn't going anywhere. It seems people either understand that art is a comodity like everything else and when it is controlled by small highly centralised corporate entities then it declines and is stifled. Re-exploring the same arguments that there are ways to express your art that can reach those who really are interested just don't hold up in practice. You offer one experience; well I say thats the one exception that proves the rule. That sample you cite existed as a result of a one time set of circumstances that allowed a condition to be met and that enabled the band to reach people it ordinarily would not have; not to mention you know it is still a very small audience comparitively speaking.
The answers to this discussion have all focused on alternative means by which we can access art by-passing the conventional distribution methods. Thats always been the case.
What we are arguing here is; does the tightly concentrated control of the mediums that provide us access to art produce a climate of acceptance and make this art more or less available to people.
I say no.

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Re: The media / corporate monopolies don't decide [message #55496 is a reply to message #55495]

Fri, 18 August 2006 11:21

Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

Well, we obviously have different views what`s art and the way it "must" be expressed. If some good artist paint a picture, and it wasn`t shown on largest TV channel in America - than it doesn`t exists (both artist and the picture)?

"Re-exploring the same arguments that there are ways to express your art that can reach those who really are interested just don't hold up in practice."

Not true. Many people really interested in some art forms/artists will find a way to specific painter and his atelier/paintings - this is happened all the time. If you think that his art must be shown on "Discovery" channel, than you are wrong.

And today you have many, many ways of sharing art forms, songs for example, unknown only 10 years ago. The band can have their own studio, recording label and Internet (downloading) page, plus fanzine, various forums, various places for concerts, alternative radios, connections with fans, everything.

And what`s "tightly concentrated control of the mediums" that somehow prevents the access of the art to the poor people?
Even in Stalin`s USSR there`re many artists banned or unliked by the goverment, but many reached domestic and international success.
And somehow, art is a personal, original thing, usually "out of the stream"... You probably won`t hear some classical music/composers on TV...does it means that the "access" to the classical music is somehow banned? Today you can have all sorts of informations about such a music, you can download it, even buy CDs, all on-line...

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Re: The media / corporate monopolies don't decide [message #55497 is a reply to message #55496]

Fri, 18 August 2006 14:00

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

See; thats what I am trying to say. You are focused on thinking that somehow my argument has something to do with exposure on the typical most popular delivery systems. Do you think that back in the 1950's that Muddy Waters or Robert Johnson were played on TV channel 2?
No; they were played on pirate radio stations that could; using large wattage transmitters reach large audiences across the rural south of America and in places like Detroit or Baltimore. Those radio stations were illegal; but they were able to function outside the law and to keep that music alive as well as to become primary in the creation of Rock and Roll by bringing this music to the masses.
That is one example of how art is transformed by a medium. Now with large corporations owning and guarding their wares with lawyers and technological devices designed to prevent people from accessing their wares; they can funnel very controlled and organised systems that decide who or what gets played anywhere in any medium. To equate small internet blogs that address small individual audiences targeted by small individual outlets and who are very flimsy and fickle; so that one day there is one song and the next day another and the original is long gone; with the ability to show your art to many thousands of people who can then show it to many thousands more until they create a market and that market drives the popularity of the art independant of any organised entity; like the early days of the Britsh Invasion in Music so to speak. For that you need access; to the medium.
This is a very long rant; I have to say on some level you got to appreciate what I am saying and deal with that if you disagree. repeating the theory that art will always find its way to those who want it; well thats the past ten posts already.
For some reason the thread can't get past the notion that art is inviolable and will prevail. Thats not simply the case; it can be marginalised by monopolistic control; even on the fringes of the market; and the market is everything; including whatever examples we can think up.

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Re: The media / corporate monopolies don't decide [message #55498 is a reply to message #55497]

Fri, 18 August 2006 15:57

Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

"...and the market is everything; including whatever examples we can think up."
I`m not interesting in the market when I`m thinking about the art. And the market isn`t everything - screw it.
And monopolistic control - too.
I`m just listening to the pop-punk band CD (two sisters, bass and guitar and one kid on the drums, 16-17 years old). They made their own CD with 6 songs - their own songs. And know what - those kids are not that bad at all...

You can now say that those kids need lawyers, menagements, big companies, TV and other parts of the industry...but they don`t.

http://lyrics.rare-lyrics.com/J/Johnny-Cash/The-One-On-The-Right-Is-On-The-Left.html

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Re: The media / corporate monopolies don't decide [message #55499 is a reply to message #55498]

Fri, 18 August 2006 17:05

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Well; there you go. It works for you.

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Re: The media / corporate monopolies don't decide [message #55501 is a reply to message #55499]

Sat, 19 August 2006 00:55

Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

Did you see the movie about de Sade? When they locked him up in Asylum and forbided him the writing, he just wrote on the sheets and his shirts - with his own blood. When authorities discovered that and take up all the clotches, he wrote on the walls with his shits.
That`s what I`m talking about.

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