Yes, there are advocates here. My wife and I have talked to quite a few of them. In our case they have been of little help. But they are nice people who do try to help. So I am thankful they are there.

The problem with the IDEA (and believe me when I say I am very familiar with the laws) is that it is a good intentioned law that is written with numerous holes in it and with very vague language. What at first appears to be cut and dry say something like "least restrictive environment" is not cut and dry at all. Sure by law the school must comply with the IDEA as well as several other laws that are active. But they don't. I'll give you an example from our case. But keep in mind it's very involved and I am trying to keep it short.

My wife and I had the school system do all of the evaluations for our older son (at the time was 5 years old). In the beginning we trusted the school and had no reason to believe they had anything but our sons best interests at heart. I asked numerous times to watch or take part in the evaluations and was told no (this even though many of the tests suggest that the parents should be there to help calm the child if necessary or the results of the test will not be accurate). In the end, to make a long story short. Their result were ridicules. They wanted to just throw our son into a special education class with far more severely handicapped children than my son. Their findings had no resemblance to our sons abilities or demeanor. We had to go out and get our own private evaluations (an expensive proposition). The private evaluations we got were in direct contrast to the schools findings. The law says the school has to take into account all private evaluations. The schools position was "ok, we looked at your evaluations and took them into consideration but we still feel we are correct in our findings and our recommendations stand". Next comes the court cases. We went through several. I have my two psychologists that did the private evaluations and the school has a never ending supply of teachers and psychologists that will come forward and testify to lies. So we have two witnesses and the school has 20. That coupled with the fact that the judges in these cases are very pro school. They see themselves as protecting the schools funding and usually rule that way. So it's almost impossible to win in the court system. Of course we could have hired a lawyer and sued the school but who has that kind of money. We don't. The above was a very abbreviated version. As I said it's long and involved. I would be happy to answer any questions you have. Or your friends have for that matter. I took the time to find out the laws and understand them fairly well. I could easily be an advocate for other parents. But my hands are full most of the time just home schooling my two sons. Bottom line is that the schools where I live only care about money. Will lie to get what they want and if you disagree with them will think nothing of turning the case over to their internal lawyers. Very difficult to win. And it takes many hours of reading and going to meetings. I doubt few parents have the time to invest. So I think most parents just go along to get along. My wife and I are not going to do this. Our battles with the school system cost us plenty. Both in money and our sanity. I also had to quit my job so I could home school my sons. Believe me when I say it is very hard on both of us.

Hope I didn't ramble. I could spend all day telling you the horror stories. I just don't have the time. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have. I will try to answer the best I can.

Not sure what you mean by centralized school management. But for me (and of course I know you will disagree and I don't want to get into it) the biggest problem with the school system is that it is run by liberals. They fight accountability at every turn. Just look at no "child left behind" and Voucher programs. Ok that's my dig for today. Feel free to respond but I will not debate politics here further. You can have the last word on this.

Like you, I used to believe in the public school system. I used to think it was good, because kids of all walks of life were in it together, so it helps them adjust to social life. It seemed like a good thing in the 70's and earlier. So I kind of expected that any problems that came up would correct themselves. People of reason would solve problems as they presented themselves. But I don't believe that anymore. I have started to fear that we've gone the way of the Titanic. Hope I'm wrong.

Alona came from a former socialist country and I can tell you from her experience that our school systems here are worse, as are many of America's attempts at "entitlements" and socialized services. I think the problem is that since America has been successful and has some amount of economic strength, those that want to socialize things are sort of "spoiled" and have a lot of money to throw into their socialization attempts. That makes the failures be bigger failures, because they have the money to fail in a big way, on a grander scale.

It's ironic that we always bashed the commies for their red tape, propoganda, laws about religion and other restrictions. But in many ways, we've become worse here now. We took the worst that the commies had and threw away the good that we once had. Instead of taking the good and leaving the bad, we took the bad and left the good.

Sorry to derail the thread a little bit. I'm just sorry that you're having to deal with a system gone bad. But I think you know the answer. The sad fact is you're going to have to find the solutions for yourself. That wouldn't be so sad if you weren't forced to pay taxes to fund that pathetic excuse for a school system. My hope is that you will be able to find other families in the same situation and bond together with them. The school system and any government "assistance" will be more of an interference than assistance, as you well know. I'm so sorry about that.

I'm not defending Russian schools. But please allow me one point. Your sister in law visited places there. Alona and both her parents have been teachers all their lives. They lived in Odessa, the most famous seaport city of the former Soviet Union. I'd say their familiarity with this subject is greater than your sister-in-law's. No offense, but I think you must give me this point.

Your sister-in-law probably visited institutions that were very troubled and that's why they invited consultants. They want help, so they showed her their most needy cases. It's a similar situation with their orphanages. But this isn't the way it is everywhere in Russia.

I can show you a lot of troubled spots in America too. So a comparison of the worst of the worst is probably a wash.

I'm not making a case that Russia is better than America, far from it. If asked for a political opinion, I'd say that socialism is an unworkable ideal that creates an unnatural and unsuccessful system. I'd say it is a recipe for failure, and that's why Russia is relatively poor. It has 70 years of economic stagnation to overcome, and a lot of catching up to do. I'd also say that the more socialized America allows itself to become, the more we will go this way too. The more programs we socialize, the more we will go from strength to lethargy, and then we will be victims of our own sloth. But I didn't realy want to get into a political debate. I am actually just empathizing with our friend, that he is having trouble with the system. It is failing him. I think it is because "the system" cannot help our friend, and it just gets in his way.

My point is that we have no right to allow the school systems to do anything but teach. Once they get into the treatment of emotional or mental disorders, religion, poilitics or anything else, they are hopelessly lost.

So by my line of reasoning, they should give a tax refund to families with disabled children and allow them to find a school that can help them. Don't make families pay for schools that cannot teach their kids.

And damn sure don't let them continue to diagnose children. That's not what they're there for. I don't think it's fair to ask that of the school staff, nor do I think it works very well for the kids.