Home » xyzzy » Tower » An interesting quote about income taxes. Food for thought.
An interesting quote about income taxes. Food for thought. [message #54576] Sat, 08 October 2005 09:58 Go to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
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"Congress went beyond merely enacting an income tax law and repealed Article IV of the Bill of Rights, by empowering the tax collector to do the very things from which that article says we were to be secure. It opened up our homes, our papers and our effects to the prying eyes of government agents and set the stage for searches of our books and vaults and for inquiries into our private affairs whenever the tax men might decide, even though there might not be any justification beyond mere cynical suspicion.

The income tax is bad because it has robbed you and me of the guarantee of privacy and the respect for our property that were given to us in Article IV of the Bill of Rights. This invasion is absolute and complete as far as the amount of tax that can be assessed is concerned. Please remember that under the Sixteenth Amendment, Congress can take 100% of our income anytime it wants to. As a matter of fact, right now it is imposing a tax as high as 91%. This is downright confiscation and cannot be defended on any other grounds.

The income tax is bad because it was conceived in class hatred, is an instrument of vengeance and plays right into the hands of the communists. It employs the vicious communist principle of taking from each according to his accumulation of the fruits of his labor and giving to others according to their needs, regardless of whether those needs are the result of indolence or lack of pride, self-respect, personal dignity or other attributes of men.

The income tax is fulfilling the Marxist prophecy that the surest way to destroy a capitalist society is by steeply graduated taxes on income and heavy levies upon the estates of people when they die.

As matters now stand, if our children make the most of their capabilities and training, they will have to give most of it to the tax collector and so become slaves of the government. People cannot pull themselves up by the bootstraps anymore because the tax collector gets the boots and the straps as well.

The income tax is bad because it is oppressive to all and discriminates particularly against those people who prove themselves most adept at keeping the wheels of business turning and creating maximum employment and a high standard of living for their fellow men.

I believe that a better way to raise revenue not only can be found but must be found because I am convinced that the present system is leading us right back to the very tyranny from which those, who established this land of freedom, risked their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to forever free themselves..."

T. Coleman Andrews. Andrews was the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service for three years, from 1953 until 1955.


Re: An interesting quote about income taxes. Food for thought. [message #54578 is a reply to message #54576] Sat, 08 October 2005 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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What do you think about a flat tax?

Maybe a use tax like 30% on everything you buy. local, state, and fed would get their cuts from that.

Re: An interesting quote about income taxes. Food for thought. [message #54580 is a reply to message #54576] Sat, 08 October 2005 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Yeah but the tax is supposed to be progressive which would mean the greatest burden would be placed on those able to pay and on whom the least pain would be inflicted. However due to the Republicans passing the Alternative Minimum Tax bill we now have the priviledge of paying the same tax as someone with twice the income.
I have no problem paying an income tax except the wealthy skate by with tax incentives and by shifting their income to dividend status.
If they paid their fair share then taxes would not be so bad. But then they could not own five ten million dollar homes.
Don't tell me how they earned it they should have it. Read Eric Barbour's essay in Vacume Tube Valley about how the rich screw the rest of us. It's a good one.
How come you terminated the Iraq discussion?

I think it's a great idea... [message #54582 is a reply to message #54578] Sat, 08 October 2005 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
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And I have read it would only have to be 15-18% to equal the money taken in today. Unfortunately I don't think it will ever happen. People have no idea how much money they actually pay in taxes. I had a girl I work with tell me that she didn't pay any taxes at all last year. I said how could this be? She makes a good amount of money. She says "well it's true. If fact I got money back last year"! Of course I tried to educate her.

Re: An interesting quote about income taxes. Food for thought. [message #54583 is a reply to message #54580] Sat, 08 October 2005 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
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Manual,

I terminated our Iraq discussion because it was going no where. You make baseless comments like the ones here. Totally untrue. The top 5% of wage earners in this country pay 95% of all the taxes taken in. This is as you would say "a fact and non-debatable." The wealthy get screwed by taxes in this country. So I am not going to have this discussion with you either. It's fruitless.

Re: An interesting quote about income taxes. Food for thought. [message #54584 is a reply to message #54583] Sat, 08 October 2005 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Too bad it might have been instructive. Pushing someone elses agenda does nothing for your independence of thought. Try looking at things from your perspective instead of some ideologues. And you are very mistaken regarding the tax statement. Look it up in the reports of the Internal Revenue System; not some right wing blog.

Ok here you go... [message #54585 is a reply to message #54584] Sat, 08 October 2005 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
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from the US Treasury. Or is that a right wing blog too? Why do I always have to prove my points and you never prove yours? I was a little off in my numbers but my point is valid. Most of the taxes are paid by the top earners in the country. If fact if you read the information below you will see that the bottom 50% of tax payers pay almost nothing. That almost all of the tax revenue comes from the top 50% of wage earners. Also mentioned is the Bush tax cuts and how the top earners actually pay "MORE" money than before.

To make things a little easier for you here are some excerpts.

"Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 90 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000 and 2001, this group paid over 96 percent of the total."

"The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.9 percent of all individual income taxes in 2001. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share."



Re: Ok here you go... [message #54587 is a reply to message #54585] Sat, 08 October 2005 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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This is good; now we can get somewhere towards some understanding of the political forces that shape our lives without the useless ideological rhetoric.
I have my work cut out for me here; lets see what we have in the document.
First; The top5% of Individual wage earners filing income tax returns paid 50% of the income taxes on earned income.
They claimed according to this document to have earned over 1/3rd of the total income claimed by wage earners for that year.
Therefor each percentage of the top 5% earned over 6% of the total income claimed.
The bottom 95% therefor earned a total of 57% of the total income claimed for that year. That means for each 1% of individual income tax returns filed in the lower half of the total population of individual taxpayers they earned 57%/95% which equals 6/10ths of a percent. Thats
each 1% of population in the upper 5% earns over 100 times the amount of each 1% of the lower 95%.
Now we have to go to the Internal revenue Site for the dollar figures of all tax revenue broken down by percentage. This then is when the important part comes.
We figure the amount of income excluded from taxation such as trust endowments/dividend returns/non-taxeeable sales of real estate/ some other tax free give-aways that apply only to the rich. Then we can come up with a figure that tells us what individuals by percentage carry the highest tax burden.
Would you say that is a fair way to judge what tax burden falls on what part of the population? If you agree I will look all of this up.
And we can see if the rich indeed do pay their fair share. If this is not acceptable then come up with something agreeable to you and I will do the leg work for that.
Just to clarify we are attempting here to see who pays the most money out of all the groups towards funding our countries bills. Right?

Re: Ok here you go... [message #54588 is a reply to message #54587] Sat, 08 October 2005 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Sorry it's not 6/10ths of a percent it is 6/100ths; my mistake.

Re: Ok here you go... [message #54589 is a reply to message #54587] Sat, 08 October 2005 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
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I have given you the information you requested and it shows you that I am correct. You can play with the numbers all you want. Tax breaks and shelters have absolutely nothing to do with our discussion. Even with all of these breaks and shelters (Which by the way "do not apply only to the rich") the bottom line is that the top wage earners in the country pay most of the taxes taken in. A ridicules amount in fact.

By the way, you forgot to discuss the fact that the tax burden on the rich, with Bush's tax cuts actually grows and not falls according to the US treasury.



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