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Oh, Wayne! [message #50181] Sun, 22 October 2006 02:38 Go to next message
Zene Gillette is currently offline  Zene Gillette
Messages: 88
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Having trouble convincing friend that his goal of 30hz at -3dB for music at 96+ dB is almost impossible without huge bucks.
He does not have room for the monsters it will take, let alone dollars for the big amps.
My arguments of a well designed 40hz will have, with room boost, all the bass he needs is not convincing. Claims a piano goes to 28hz so he needs speakers designed right off the spread sheets to do it.
He heard my Khorns a few years ago and remembers them as punchy bass, but not really deep that he thinks he wants. I made the mistake of telling him typical KHorns were -3dB about 38hz - 40hz. He's going to get nothing but muddy bass with his current approach. Frustrated, Zene

Professional series seven π and seven π-18 [message #50182 is a reply to message #50181] Sun, 22 October 2006 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18726
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Those are sure to satisfy, with very deep bass response. Their alignment is overdamped to be a conjugate to the boost from corner loading. That makes bass deep and full without being bloated, and extension is very deep.


Re: Professional series seven π and seven π-18 [message #50183 is a reply to message #50182] Sun, 22 October 2006 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zene Gillette is currently offline  Zene Gillette
Messages: 88
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Thanks. Sorry not to mention he has no corners. He has UB and up and is just working on woofer system. You and I know yours have more than enough bass, but he wants absolute proof woofer will do as he wants, not realizing that the factors of deep bass are many. It's an impossible situation for me to fight.
Do you have data on the 7 PI against a wall? Zene

Re: Professional series seven π and seven π-18 [message #50185 is a reply to message #50183] Sun, 22 October 2006 23:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18726
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Here's a measurement of a seven π speaker in-room, but it's gated so bass response doesn't show up. It was done in a series of measurements made in an arc to test crossover summing and response at various positions in the room.

seven π loudspeaker frequency response

Measurements below 200Hz in-room show the room's response more than the speaker's. So there is no real way to do it. One thing that could be done is to find a stadium that is open and/or very large and that has a corner to place the speaker in. Then you can load the speaker with a trihedral corner without enclosing the speaker in an indoor room. That would work. Or you can measure the speaker outdoors in the open and add 12dB/octave low-pass rise to the curve, simulating room gain. This gives a good estimate, but most rooms are more lossy than that. That's both good and bad, because the same things that prevent a full 12dB/octave bass boost are what damp room modes. Still, you can expect several decibels rise below 100Hz, making an overdamped curve like shown below what you want for corner loading:

Response of seven π bass bin without boundary reinforcement
Add 12dB/octave bass boost from corner loading



Re: Professional series seven π and seven π-18 [message #50187 is a reply to message #50185] Mon, 23 October 2006 00:36 Go to previous message
Zene Gillette is currently offline  Zene Gillette
Messages: 88
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
That's what I needed. You dood it again. Zene

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