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Re: One Pi [message #48710 is a reply to message #48709] Fri, 27 January 2006 06:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dB is currently offline  dB
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80Hz Active Crossover? Bi-Ampli?

Re: One Pi [message #48711 is a reply to message #48709] Fri, 27 January 2006 07:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dB is currently offline  dB
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Do you mean 800Hz...? Or is it more like you say?

Re: One Pi [message #48725 is a reply to message #48710] Sat, 28 January 2006 04:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stefan is currently offline  Stefan
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I mean 80Hz Active Crossover
But at this moment I'll use 75Hz 3-rd order build in my amp (Crown CTs600)
Do you think that is good idea?

Re: One Pi [message #48730 is a reply to message #48725] Sat, 28 January 2006 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dB is currently offline  dB
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No, no, no.
Alpha 8 Resonant Frequency (fs) is 76Hz. You will get with that at 80Hz. From Eminence website Selection Guide http://www.eminence.com/eminence/pages/products02/pdf/selection.pdf you can find Alpha 8 to be great in the range of 50-2kHz but not Excellent. Alpha 8:
---- Subwoofer (Not rec.)
* * * * Woofer 50Hz--2kHz (Great)
* * * * * Mid-Bass Woofer 200Hz--4kHz (Excellent)(...it doesn't get there)
* * * * Midrange 600Hz--5kHz (Great)

After all it does not connect with a super tweeter at 5K(87dB at 5K-going down). Maybe X-Over around 2000Hz max. Losing performance after 3.5kHz. If you want power, I can understand that, give a look at SMC2012/N beyma, with extended frequency range; 1-20 kHz (101dB). If you want to introduce some high quality Super tweeter as the beyma or JBL 2405H, you have to think how you get there either with a compression driver (for power) or a cone/dome mid-tweeter (for a silent environment, home or studio).

Re: Slot Tweeters [message #48741 is a reply to message #48725] Sun, 29 January 2006 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dB is currently offline  dB
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Hi, Stefan
I like your idea (of the CP21/F Slot Tweeter and 2 ALPHAS-dispersion at high and low freq.) that’s why I keep looking. There is a similar TW from Selenium that has a Slot and that is ST324 with 103dB (and ST322 +2dB) for $25.13.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-360&ctab=2#Tabs
The reason I say this is that maybe you can manage to find a fit. There is a kit with Selenium parts from France that uses a 10” Woofer and this Super Tweeter.
http://www.mhdiffusion.fr/produits.php?de=0&m=SELENIUM&c=kit+hp
The difference is that the woofer goes a little bit further to 4k and the tweeter with Fs (resonance) a little bit earlier at about 2k7 what makes them suitable for a marriage.

Now, I checked about APT’s from Eminence and they seem very good with resonance at 2.5kHz. There is one APT50 and APT80 ($34.99)/APT150/APT200 pre-mounted ‘to your choice of the horn lens’ as an example from the site.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=113
Since your ALPHA 8 rolls-off at 3K5 Hz there seems to be a good possibility...
Again, I like the CP21/F from beyma but I would use it only as a super tweeter from 5K or even more from 7K to 20’sK Hz. I guess you are saving money here.

With 2xAlpha 8’s (96dBs) and a ST324 you need more or less 7dB Attenuation for the high frequencies.
With 2xAlpha 8’s (96dBs) and APT50 (104/105dB) you will need an 8 or 9dB Attenuation. That’s my best guess. I bet that if you ask Wayne P. he can do a good ‘Rolls-Royce/Ferrari/Lamborghini’ X-over project that puts everything in place, with the power and dispersion that you need, and if you use the EMINENCE HF Drivers.
Best Regards.



Choosing the Crossover Frequency [message #48747 is a reply to message #48725] Mon, 30 January 2006 06:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dB is currently offline  dB
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Hi, Stefan
Check this about 'Choosing the Crossover Frequency' by Wayne Jaeschke, 2001.
http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Articles/xover%20article/xpointmain.htm


Re: Slot Tweeters [message #48764 is a reply to message #48741] Tue, 31 January 2006 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stefan is currently offline  Stefan
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Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Hi, dB

Thanks for your support
I know about Selenium ST324 & ST322 tweeters. Their price is attractive but I think that you get what you pay. I mean that their response curves are not like CP-21F. Selenium ST324 have poor sound above 15kHz and ST323 above 12,5kHz. Their horizontal dispersion is 120 degrees, CP-21F have 140 degrees. Also CP-21F is 25W AES, Selenium TWs are 20RMS. I bought 4x Beyma CP-21F before year ago and their sound is fantastic but they are in 3-way systems with 4x Alpha 8 and 4x 15" Cerwin Vega woofers with crossover between LF and MF about 800hZ. If you want I can send you photos of them
Now I want to make speakers which have flat response from 80Hz-20kHz (THX crossover point is 80Hz) and four 15" Vega speakers I want to cut to 80Hz like subwoofers.
Alpha 8 have 89db/5kHz and have 2 peaks about 2,5 and 3,5kHz - 97db (it's 8db).
Selenium 12PW3 have 12db (min 92db/450hz, max 104db/3,2kHz)difference.
Selenium 10PW3 have 10db (min 91db/300hz, max 101db/3,5kHz)difference.
THX have requirement for 7db for surround speakers.
I have bad opinion about APT:50
Me and a frend of me used 2x Eminence APT:80 with 4x Eminence Alpha 8 in his car and HF was poor till we mount 2x CP-21F with L-pad

What's your opinion dB

Best Regards
Stefan


Re: Slot Tweeters [message #48771 is a reply to message #48764] Thu, 02 February 2006 03:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dB is currently offline  dB
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Registered: May 2009
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You may destroy your biloved CP-21F's.
What components are you using for X-overs, Stefan?
What freq's are you planning, for crossovers?
Regards

Re: THX Speakers [message #48773 is a reply to message #48764] Thu, 02 February 2006 06:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dB is currently offline  dB
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Registered: May 2009
Master
'Now I want to make speakers which have flat response from 80Hz-20kHz (THX crossover point is 80Hz)' [STEFAN]

'...if you are referring to "THX Approved" speakers, I think that any quality speaker is going to play music or home theater just fine...'
[member in a HT forum]

Speakers complete list of THX testing categories (from www.thx.com Product Test):

Axial Frequency Response Analysis
Directional Characteristics
Sensitivity
Impedance
Harmonic Distortion
Low Frequency Cut Off
Phase Angle
Stray Magnetic Flux
Maximum Output Level
Acoustic Noise Level
Polarity




Re: Slot Tweeters [message #48955 is a reply to message #48771] Thu, 23 February 2006 02:08 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Stefan is currently offline  Stefan
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Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
We used 3-rd order 5kH X-over point.
X-over was the same like we use with Eminence APT:80 but we want to make this test only for comparison between them.

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