He He....I traded Speakerman right out of his undies!! [message #46646] |
Mon, 04 April 2005 17:39 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
BillEpstein
Messages: 886 Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (2nd Degree) |
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He got my pair of 3677's, some horn slot covers, my truck and complete autographed Zampheer collection. But I got his Altec 902-B's with Tangerines. I love Tangerines. Oh and I got some other junk to make up for the loss of my Zampheer's. Oh those 902's. Could be the last piece of the puzzle. They go so much higher than the 806's I can't believe it. And just as the sand-boxes cleaned up the bass which released the potential of the mid-range, the extra extension on top gives a cohesiveness to the sound from top to bottom which blows away single drivers! You think life ends at 13kHz? Think again. I wonder how nice the pan flute would sound now............
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Re: He He....I traded Speakerman right out of his undies!! [message #46648 is a reply to message #46646] |
Mon, 04 April 2005 18:24 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Russellc
Messages: 397 Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (1st Degree) |
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This is the same driver in my current A7s and I couldn't agree with you more. My 902 8b also had loading caps on the back of the diapram, which is the good one, not the symbiotic which I also have. Whip off the back covers and see what you see. If it is a shiney aluminum dome and there is felt in the back of the covers, then put them back together. More than likely, unless already removed, you will not see the shiney dome, but a dull plastic dome looking thing. that is the loading cap. Also, there will probably not be felt in the back of the cap. Call bill at great Plaines Audio and purchase (VERY inexpensive) two felts and six short screws, (3 to each driver) which will replace the existing three screws which will be too long with the loading cap removed. Install the felts and reassemble. Much nicer on the high end, and a little more extension and air. Easily reversible, but you won't want to. this basicall converts the 902 8B to a 902 8A. There can be other slight differences on some models, but soundwise you,ll never tell. Sorry if you already knew all this. Apparently these loading caps closley hugged the back of the aluminum dome, creating a cushion of air to help control the diapram at crazy high (not home) volume levels. However, it shaves of a little of the high frequency transients. Enjoy. Great drivers, Russellc
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Re: He He....I traded Speakerman right out of his undies!! [message #46649 is a reply to message #46646] |
Mon, 04 April 2005 18:31 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Russellc
Messages: 397 Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (1st Degree) |
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Also, do your 806 drivers have the original diapram? It has usually been replaced with the basic aluminum diapram, which is the usually prefered one. However, the 806 and I think 807 drivers are slightly shorter in the body than the 802, and has a somewhat smaller magnet. I understand that the original diaprams for these shorter drivers was "special" (and now made of 100% unobtainium) somewhat less mass. when traded out with the "prefered" aluminum diapram, there was a loss on the high end due to the increased mass. cheers, Russellc
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Bill's 902's came from GP!!! [message #46653 is a reply to message #46648] |
Tue, 05 April 2005 13:18 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
spkrman57
Messages: 522 Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (1st Degree) |
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Russell, Bill went home with 902's from Bill H/Great Plains. These are new units other than me using them as I am the original purchaser. So these(even though they say 902T on the back are 902B's.Bill had no 902B decals, so I said better to have a wrong one for looks than none at all. The only reason Bill went home with them is because I have a pair of used 902B's with "push-terminals" and Bill sends them with industrial spade lugs that I can't use as I am always swapping out horns and drivers like most folks change underwear. The 806 is a smaller magnet version of the 802(both having aluminum diaphrams). Putting a symbiotik diaphram in a 802 becomes a 808, and the same in a 806 becomes a 807. Better power handling, poor HF top end response. There is always a compromise somewhere. All 4 of these models are alnico. The 902 is a ferrite magnet/tangerine phase plug. I just did a unofficial shoot-out with a JBL 2426 and found the 902 superior(to my ears). The 2426 is higher output in the upper midrange, the 902 is better on the upper HF area. Ron
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But he would not sell me "Muse", the cat!!! [message #46654 is a reply to message #46650] |
Tue, 05 April 2005 13:32 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
spkrman57
Messages: 522 Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (1st Degree) |
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Wayne, If you get the "Iconic" 902's there will be some happy folks out there as long as they stay the way the original 902B's were built.I worry about companies that have lessened in quality to make ends meet. There are companies who are falling by the wayside on a regular basis. And some of those companies are very big. I don't know about the LF drivers you are looking at. Altecs lineup of 416/515 were their bread and butter series, but required large enclosures(416 - 8.5cu' - tuned to 28hz), and the 515 is even more of a midbass driver. Not a prob if you have a sub underneath. Other topic here. I finally got my 2242H 18" JBL sub-woofer installed in a 8.8 cu ' box tuned to 28hz.
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about moving some serious air!!!!!! I have only hooked it up to test it out(heavy bass music-no mid or tweeter or crossover, just straight up to the amp). Can't wait to integrate it with my 2226 and 902 on Edgarhorn(650hz). My crossover is your standart 4 Pi-pro with .68 ufd MPP caps bypassing the caps in the PE 1.6khz hi-pass crossover. Took some time to burn in the new crossover(drivers are already burned in). I think it will still smooth out with more time(only have 14 hrs on it so far). By the way: Altec 902 beat out the JBL 2426 in my un-official shootout in my home. The upper HF response was much superior.
Time to quit wasting bandwidth now!! Ron
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Re: But he would not sell me "Muse", the cat!!! [message #46657 is a reply to message #46654] |
Tue, 05 April 2005 14:03 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 18752 Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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JBL 2426's have falling response, almost a straight diagonal line. The good news is that means breakup modes are well damped; The bad news is they are so well damped the top octave is attenuated.As far as new production Altec parts are concerned, I'm interested to see what Bill and Todd have to offer at Great Plains and Iconic Manufacturing. I could see using new production Iconic Altec 416 drivers in cabinets as have been documented several times in this forum. It would probably make a nice four π speaker. Maybe build something else with a 515 too. The eight π design might be good for that, but it's close enough to an 828 that might not be cool. We'll see. I'll be interested to check out their compression driver too. Todd seems quite proud of it, and your impressions are promising. I also agree with your concerns about profits and quality. This is true for any of the speaker companies we deal with, of course. I surely hope Iconic Manufacturing can remain competitive, and continue to make a good product with consistent quality control. I don't know anything at all about them, so they may have that all locked up. But if anything frustrates me the most about loudspeaker transducer manufacturers, it's a lack of consistency. If they change products around all the time, then you are always playing catchup and it's no good for product consistency. Some companies have QC problems too, and then you never even know if the part you put in the system will even work. That makes logistics a nightmare, and return freight costs can eat you alive. Not to mention the hassle of it all. But I'm hoping for the best.
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JBL 2426 and Altec 902 [message #46658 is a reply to message #46657] |
Tue, 05 April 2005 15:26 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
spkrman57
Messages: 522 Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (1st Degree) |
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Wayne, Are you saying that the JBL 2426 makes a better midrange horn than a mid/tweeter horn?Maybe a 1st order crossover might work better on the JBL than the Pi crossover. I know you can't go wrong with a Altec 902 driver, the top end response has a little HF magic in it, even if it only goes to 18Khz. Ron
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Re: JBL 2426 and Altec 902 [message #46659 is a reply to message #46658] |
Tue, 05 April 2005 16:15 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 18752 Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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What I'm saying that the JBL 2426 response curve looks like this:![](http://www.pispeakers.com/Measurements/JBL2426_on_2370_no_compensation_take1.gif)
That's what it will look like with a first-order crossover too. It's difficult to add compensation to a first-order network because filter peaking isn't cooperative for what you're trying to do. And you have to watch the power. Use a π crossover, and this is the response you can expect: ![](http://www.pispeakers.com/Measurements/JBL2426_on_2370_with_pi_1K6a012db_crossover_take1.gif)
Response above 4kHz is still reduced, but it forms a shelf that remains pretty flat from there on out.
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