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Pi 2 Towers.....help [message #46186] Tue, 25 January 2005 09:59 Go to next message
ImTweaked is currently offline  ImTweaked
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
I buildt the pi Towers about 2 years ago for my son. we both love it and it met his budget and is driven by Welbourne DRD 300 B
As in all things audio... we would like to extract more and maybe upgrade the tweeter.. For the price a fantastic value!
Sound opinion:
The overall sound is very very good- especially the mid voice down to the bass. So much so that it "almost" can get away without the sub.
The weakness we felt is in the intergration of the tweater to the 10 inch woofer region.
Upper voice seem thin...and the tweeter seemed veiled and tight( subjective)Not enough transparency

For what we invested this is a great product don't get us wrong . we just want to improve the tweeter and get a more open and robust upper voivce region. Pi 4 have been considered but he doesnot want a larger foot print

Has any one upgraded to a better tweeter that handles the crossover with the 10 inch better? Any suggestions is appreciated.
Like how about using a better tweeter from the upscale pi family

Any suggestions from Pi2 users and Wayne



Re: Pi 2 Towers.....help [message #46187 is a reply to message #46186] Tue, 25 January 2005 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RMW is currently offline  RMW
Messages: 30
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Hello ImT,

In advance of Wayne's reply, which is sure to be prompt and well thought out, be aware that the two pi is now shipping with a Vifa HF driver and associated 6 dB/oct. HP filter cap. Seems to me this would be a natural upgrade path for you.

Re: Pi 2 Towers.....help [message #46188 is a reply to message #46186] Tue, 25 January 2005 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
Messages: 960
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I went through a lot of mods on my Towers, each provided me with better sound, but at the same time, introduced higher costs to the speakers.

The first was replacing the piezo tweeter with an Eminence APT80. The cost of the APT80 was reasonable, but the components required for a pair of high-pass filter pushed the cost up. Looking back, it wasn't a worthwhile mod. The KSN1038 tweeter is actually a very good driver and there are various ways to tweak it to your taste. In fact, I'm using a pair of it as UHF in my JBLPro system.

The second mod was replacing the tweeter with a PSD2002 compression and crossing over at 1.6KHz. I called it my "Thermionic 2 PI" and it bumped the Towers up into the next class. Big improvement, but the cost for a pair of compression drivers, horns, and crossovers was a big investment. Unfortunately, my front baffle was cut exactly to plan and I did not have enough room to fit in the horns. The horns sat on top of the cabinet for several months. If your baffle can fit a pair of horns, this would be the mod I recommend.

The last mod was attaching Wayne's midrange horns on the Alpha10 to emulate the 8PI. That was a lot of fun too.

Gar.

Re: Pi 2 Towers.....help [message #46189 is a reply to message #46186] Tue, 25 January 2005 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18791
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
The one π, two π and two π tower all now use the Vifa DX25. I'll make an announcement in a few days that describes them, and I'll show you how to retrofit if you want to do that. It's a very easy mod that you can do in about a half hour.
Re: Pi 2 Towers.....help [message #46196 is a reply to message #46186] Wed, 26 January 2005 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skip Pack is currently offline  Skip Pack
Messages: 51
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hollister, California
Baron
I've built all three speakers in the Studio line (1, 2, and 2 tower),
all with the piezo tweeter, and I share Wayne's occasionally stated
comment that what you hear may be the upper end of the big driver's
range rather than the tweeter. I have made a change on two sets of
speakers that has been pleasing to me. I have switched the series
coil, using North Creek Musin 14 guage coils. These, obviously have
much lower DC resistance, and seem to make the speaker richer without
decreasing the sense of detail. I have tried .5mh and .7mh values and
prefer the .7mh. Wayne has stated that anywhere up to 1mh falls within
in his 'reasonable' range of values. Perhaps 1mh would be even nicer.
I notice that Parts Express is now offering large guage air-core
coils, and the prices are comparable to North Creek.

I have also paralleled a 50 ohm resistor across the tweeter, but I'm
less sure of a significant difference here. I use these speakers with
gainclone amps, and I thought the resistors might make the load more
benign, as gainclones are reputed to dislike capacitative loads.

Please take my comments here as coming from one without significant
technical authority

Skip

Re: Pi 2 Towers.....help [message #46198 is a reply to message #46188] Wed, 26 January 2005 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline  Adam
Messages: 419
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Agreed... A 2002 would provide much better integration to a larger midrange driver than other, smaller format tweeters.

Adam

Thanks all; Now I got my work cut out...Wayne P [message #46201 is a reply to message #46186] Thu, 27 January 2005 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ImTweaked is currently offline  ImTweaked
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
where can I get more info on this new vifa and also how to step by step modify the xover...also th 1 mhenfy air coil is that a part you have
Thanks
ImTweaked
indesignho@aol.com

Garman.... [message #46202 is a reply to message #46188] Thu, 27 January 2005 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ImTweaked is currently offline  ImTweaked
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
What would that PSD2002 and horn and xover parts cost? Probably I can find that at Waynes site but what would the xover parts cost and is it complex?
Do you have pictures? Our speaker is not finished i.e.veneered- I may be able to modify. Although I did use the narrower side as the front
Thanks

Re: Prices.... [message #46203 is a reply to message #46202] Thu, 27 January 2005 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
Messages: 960
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Wayne actually has very competitive pricing, so I would direct you to him for an estimate. Items you will need are: H290 horn, PSD2002, crossover. I think this set up will get you 85% to 90% there to what the Theatre PI's have to offer, without starting from scratch on another cabinet.

In terms of crossover, Wayne should be able to help you with that too. It's a variation of the crossover used in this 3PIs and 4PIs. He'll put together network that includes a 2nd order low-pass, 3rd order high-pass at 1600Hz, attenuation to match the tweeter with the woofer, and compensation for the tweeter in its upper range. You can download a detailed description of this network from his website a www.pispeakers.com.

As for fit, look up the dimensions of the H290 horn on Eminence's website: www.eminence.com to determine if you have room. Like I said, I followed the orignal plan exactly and was short 1/4" between the Alpha10 and top panel. Frustrating cause it was only 1/4".

Not much to show photo-wise. Imagine a horn sitting on top of the Tower. However, if you can fit the horn on your front baffle, it might look something like my Theater 3's.

Gar.


You've got mail! [message #46204 is a reply to message #46201] Thu, 27 January 2005 17:20 Go to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18791
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
I'll make an announcement about the new design next week.

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