| horn types? [message #46042] |
Sun, 19 December 2004 10:48  |
scp53
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
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ok, im not going to buy a pi kit at the moment. size is the biggest problem but so is money. so, im thinking of building center and surrounds(probably 4 surrounds) to use with my klipsch rb25s. what are my options for horns and compression drivers? i d like something that blends reasonably well with the rb25s timbre wise. obviously not perfect but id like it close. are there basic titanium compression drivers for $25-45 that can go on a 5x5 horn(not sure about angles). what horn type is best for mains, center, surround,etc. im not looking for a really complex answer- i know horns are complex. and what would be good for the drivers and crossovers(these are going to be two way. so one woofer). id like to build a center for $300. the surrounds not sure about how much money. i dont want to skimp. thanks- i really appreciate help. these are not easy Q's to answer. scp53
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| Re: horn types? [message #46046 is a reply to message #46044] |
Sun, 19 December 2004 22:15  |
scp53
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
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Chancellor |
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ok, so what should i use for surround speaker HF drivers? no horn at all. a tweeter. i think ill wait on these and just build my center first. for the center i think im going with a psd2002 or a SELENIUM D210TI 1" TITANIUM COMPRESSION DRIVER Part Number 264-235. which one do you think is better. this selenium caught my attention because it said movie theater use. where as other comp drivers are for strict pa use or so they say. so id use one of those comp drivers mounted on a horn with a 8 or 10 inch woofer. could you help me select a driver to match one those comp drivers? not sure how to match them. and the horn im not sure of either. this is for center channel use. i figure i can have a excellent center for less than $300 when its all finished. my only fear is it swamping my klipsch in every way. and this also brings up another Q. how do i match a 105-107 db driver to a woofer with only 90-95? thanks a lot scp53
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| Re: horn types? [message #46048 is a reply to message #46047] |
Mon, 20 December 2004 08:11 |
scp53
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
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Chancellor |
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could you answer my other questions. i already have surround speakers that will be sufficient. i need a good DIY center first. thanks, scp53
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| Re: horn types? [message #46049 is a reply to message #46048] |
Mon, 20 December 2004 09:28 |
Chris R
Messages: 133
Registered: May 2009
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Master |
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scp53, Here's what I made up for a center channel speaker.
http://cerchaos.homeip.net:1280/woodworking5.html Its doesn't go super deep, but for this center, it doesn't have to.
The Fostex are shielded [sp?], and the pieso doesn't have a magnet
at all. If you have a CRT TV, you'll have to worry about this.
If not, you don't. Its sounds rather nice to me. The drivers
were less than $100 total. If you use a real horn, Wayne's crossovers have a padding circuit
to get the output levels in line with the low end. Of the standard
Pi drivers, the 10" Eminence Alpha's a really nice, but you'll
have to sheild them somehow (maybe), and the box is going to be 12"
high or so. Chris
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| Re: horn types? [message #46050 is a reply to message #46049] |
Mon, 20 December 2004 16:26 |
scp53
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
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Chancellor |
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any cheap horn designs though? id rather stay away from tweeters. how about a apt150 eminence horn/comp driver with a 8" dirver? this would better match my klipsch. i think the selenium and the psd2002 would be to potent for my setup. at least for the moment. suggestoins? scp53
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| Re: horn types? [message #46051 is a reply to message #46050] |
Mon, 20 December 2004 19:14 |
ToFo
Messages: 219
Registered: May 2009
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Hi scp53,
Don't be fooled by the size of the APT 50. It is actually just as loud as it's bigger brothers and might make the bones in your ears click. Why not use a Klipsch rc-25 to match. Not to ignore your obvious intention of incremental upgrade, but a 104 dB sensitive supertweeter is an unusual place to start. The APT 50 may be cheap but it is a serious supertweeter for a dialog speaker. if you are going to match up everything sometime soon that's different. Your 8" has to go up to about 4K with smooth response. spl below 94 would be a shame, but then spl above that isn't that common in a cheap 8". You can pad the horn all you want, but for me, smaller resisters are cheaper than bigger amps. Cheap, good 8"? Alpha 8! but then just go with 1 Pi's. unless the piezos are all gone by now, or do an APT variant of it. As far as timbre matching, my guess is no dice. Different cutoff, different flare shape and crossover frequency, and a different diaphragm material. I can't think of many more ways to change the character of a high frequency horn. Not to mention the paper 8". My bet, it isn't going to sound like the Klipsch, but it would probably be very nice sounding. You can't really hope for timbre matching whilst doing incremental upgrades to a roomfull of speakers. But if you went around the room with these and made some incredible subs it would really put the adrenallin in action movies. ...and you would get to meet all the police at one time or another 
Thomas
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| Re: horn types? [message #46052 is a reply to message #46051] |
Mon, 20 December 2004 20:52 |
scp53
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
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Chancellor |
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the only reason im not going that direction is because it cost more money than its worth. im mean the klipsch center is great as are many other consumer centers. but since ive looked into diy i cant justify paying more and getting less. i do agree to get an exact match the same horn/woofer config is necessary. maybe ill order the parts from klipsch and do it my self. id get the un revised one. but im not real sure. do you think having them timbre matched is a must? ive compared klipsch bookshelfs of different series and they sound different. i suppose a completely different manufacturer center is going to have even more difference. any ideas where to buy a good rc25? the dealer wants $265 for a center with a 5" square horn and two 5.25" aluminum woofers. i can get much better than that going diy. what if i bought 3 apt drivers with lenses and got some $60-80 dollar 6.5" woofers and mad 3 identical speakers? in other words redo my lcr speakers and move the klipsch to the back. or the cheapest option would be to use a klipsch sb3 for a center. its a different series but maybe i could tweak it. the most drastic difference is it sounds a little muffled compared to the reference one s i have. i could lay it on its side and turn the horn 90 degrees. then id just have to get different surrounds- i got cheapo rca. my sub is fine- dayton titanic mk3 10". not ungodly bass but sufficient. and i have a yamaha 5.1 receiver to power it all. ok, so if i scrap the center idea for now what should i get for surrounds? dipole? bipole? i want it immersing. im really sorry for this long post. thanks for all the advice. scp53
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| Re: horn types? [message #46053 is a reply to message #46052] |
Tue, 21 December 2004 15:38 |
ToFo
Messages: 219
Registered: May 2009
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Not only did I sell all of this stuff at one time, I also worked in service and installation. I hear you about value and quality. I decided all my stuff would be as DIY as possible after seeing some of the stuff that goes on. Not to mention the mark-up and seeing the insides of the speakers. If you are going as high as 60-80 per midwoofer you can get some great stuff for that. Sure there are all sorts of exotic drivers out there, but many of them are difficult to properly implement and many of the most succesful designers have largely ignored the tweaky stuff, so I guess thet tells you something. I am not saying you should't do the center. I think it will be fine. What I think is very specific to what I am building and why I build it. I think that goes for all to some degree. We audio lovers all have our particular bent. the ones who haven't got one yet have a fascination of the week while they find out what they really like. I urge anyone to not take us too seriously. The guys with the most help to offer also tend to be further entrenched in their topology of choice. I like 2 channel good old stereo. I like solid state as zealously as tube guys go nuts for triodes. Some go nuts for vinyl or horn only systems(even giving up bass, couldn't do that). To me it's the more the merrier, and I want to hear all of this cool stuff, but I know what I want to come home to. Anyway, the center may be a great place to start. It will be cheap, and you can have a simple project that will get the bugs out of your building process. When you have it where you want it, make a few more. The one thing that gets a lot of DIY HT guys is the skrewed up TV tube from stray flux. A lot of great drivers have no sheilding. I have had friends glue bucking magnets on with good results, but no experience of my own. Since you are doing smallish speakers, I would have all clones. You could put an APT driver on a beta 8-CX and have a coax that would be a good main, surround or center. I am sure someone could point you toward figuring out the crossover so you had good phasing and summing at XO freq. I have thought about making some of these for studio monitors for my computer, Maybe I will get around to it after Christmas. Thomas
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