Question for now: 4Pi or 4Pi 18"? I think the 4Pi will most likely be my next project, but can't decide to go for the 1"HF-15"LF or 2"HF-18"LF combo. I'm looking for something that will sound great as is, but will also allow me to build from for a full range sound.

What is the top end like of the 4Pi and 4Pi/18? Will I be missing the frequencies in the upper teen? Can (or should) a UFH driver be added to the 4Pi/18, perhaps crossed at 10K?

What about the bottom end? How to these speakers compare to the bass of the 2Pi Towers? Could the 4Pi use a sub?

thanks,
Gar.

I don't know how you guys in Canada do it! It's cold enough here in NYC!

On your question whether the 4 Pi needs a sub, the answer is "no", but a sub can be fun depending on what amplification you're using. I broke in my Pi 4s w/ a pp 40W EL34 amp (Assemblage ST40), which produced overwhelming bass. But after breakin I play my 4 Pis w/ 8W Welborne Laurels, which must roll off a bit at the bottom.

Even w/ the Welbornes, bass is fine, but I was spoiled by the fantastic bass I'd heard w/ the Assemblage. Because I'm obsessed w/ building speakers (and had never heard, much less owned, a sub), and because I had an unused Marchand crossover, I built a sub. The difference is subtle but fun and rewarding with Mahler and Eminem!

• Tempest Sub Construction Pix

I wondered just how high I could hear. I hooked up an Eico audio generator and, also, a Lodestar function generator to a set of TV speakers to see how high I could hear. I am 61 years old, so I did not expect to be able to hear to 22K :).

I found that I could "hear" to about 13K. "Hear" is not very descriptive here. Here "hear" means that if I tilted my head right and cupped my ears, then just maybe I could hear something.

But it gave me a headache to go much over 10K. It reminded me of an auto detector in Bloomington, Indiana that one had to sit next to while waiting for the light to change. It created a very high pitched sound that made me roll up the window, because it went right into my brain - I don't know how else to describe it.

I also tested my wife, who is only 39 ;), and she could hear a tad higher than me.

Maybe some musical instruments do produce tones or overtones in the over 12K spectrum, but I don't believe that I, personally, would miss them.

I took the Eico to run on my main speakers with EV tweeters, but the results were not much different.

I am sure that, for me, any of the Pi speakers would do fine, but I am curious if anyone else thinks they can hear "music" over 15K? Perhaps it is a "presence" or feeling of "liveness" that is experienced more than heard?

While I think it depends on your hearing abilities... I am starting to believe there is some merrit to extension beyond 20 kHz. We have the Kef reference in the store that I work at, which uses the hyper tweeter with extension up to 50 kHz or so. I do notice a certain air in their sound which is less prominant in speakers which don't have this extension. I notice this with similar speakers I build using tweeters with extension beyond the 20k mark.

Adam

I tried listening to my older tv's, but my tinnitis drowned out anything that I might have heard.

I have an ongoing tinnitis (comes of age), which is "apparently" at a lower frequency - maybe at 11K or so; it changes as my head moves. Should try and see if I could produce beats in my ears, but imagine that I cannot.

So, is a flyback transformer singing = music?

An interesting sidenote: my Radio Shack sound pressure meter was recognizing a spl of 75 dB or so at some higher frequencies, even though I heard nothing! Maybe I should point it at the back of my tv's.