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Great Plains Audio Club Meeting [message #42388] Mon, 08 September 2003 00:47 Go to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18791
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I had a really great time at the Great Plains Audio Club Meeting yesterday. Not only was the sound great and the company even better, but I'm telling you what - I had the best brisket I've ever had. I'm not exaggerating either. We ate great, and all thanks goes to Phil Wilson who hosted the event. Just really a super time.

In attendance was Bill Wassilak and his wife, Forrest Merrill, Mark Fitzgerald, Akhilesh Bajaj and his son, Anitesh, Mark Margiotta, Phil and Janet Wilson and Alona and me. There was always music playing, and we often found ourselves silent for an impromptu listening session. But we visited with one another throughout the afternoon as well.


Standing, from left to right: Mark Margiotta, Phil Wilson, Wayne Parham, Forrest Merrill, Mark Fitzgerald and Akhilesh Bajaj
Seated: Anitesh Bajaj
Not Shown: Bill Wassilak
(Where'd you go, Bill?)


Left to right: Alona Parham, Janet Wilson and Mrs. Wassilak (Big apologies, I didn't get your first name)

Listening Impressions:

I would have been happy with any of the three systems that was there. We swapped some components around, but basically, there were three systems that we listened to. One was my small system consisting of a pair of Paramour SET amps and a pair of Studio Series two π loudspeakers. Another was our host Phil's system consisting of a Decware Select stereo SET amplifier and a pair of small towers using bass-reflex loaded 8" Fostex single-drivers. And the third system was a higher-power push-pull pentode amp driving a pair of very small but beautiful bookshelf speakers having a dome tweeter and a 6" midwoofer.

I don't need to describe the π / Paramour system, because this kind of system is discussed extensively here. But I will say that I thought it was the most plain and least expensive of the three systems. It sounds great and looks fine, but the speakers are those that my son uses in his bedroom, so they take more abuse than my Big Block Olds on a summer evening on the strip. Nothing like the beautiful Martinelli cabinets in a showroom setting, which is the only option we're selling for finished loudspeakers these days, by the way.

The big surprise of the day for me was Phil's system. I've heard some of the best builder's single-driver implementations and never been really impressed. But Phil's was really great. Simple and pure, just what the single-driver guys boast about.


Phil Wilson's system - Single driver Fostex bass-reflex on Decware Select amplifier

The bass was adequate, and didn't sound like it was really missing. Of course, we didn't play some of the selections that really push a bass subsystem, and I suspect that we would have wanted a sub for home theater use. But it did have bass that didn't sound artificially enhanced. As you might expect, it sounded like we had bass down to about 100Hz, maybe 80Hz, and it sounded pretty well balanced down to that point. That's pretty good really.

What was amazing - and what I've missed from other single-driver implementations - was the content above 10kHz. These things sounded very much like the response you get from modern compression drivers. I'm not talking about dynamic range or character or anything like that, but I am talking about content and response. The speakers sounded like they were relatively flat up to like 16kHz or so. It was kind of amazing to look at an 8" driver and hear what sounded very much like it should have been coming from a tweeter. I wondered if they snuck a little piezo in the magnet hole or something because the highs sparkled like I'd have never expected from a system like this.


Phil Wilson's Decware Zen Select amplifier

Here's one you gotta check out. It was also surprising, not so much by its capability or novelty, but just because it's really cool. You would expect 250 watts of good, clean push-pull pentodes to be able to do some pretty amazing stuff. But expecting something and experiencing it are two different things.


Mark Margiotta's system - Two-way mini-monitors on a 250 watt pentode amplifier

I probably should have written down the brands of each of the components here, but maybe Mark or someone can clarify. These were all purchased on the West Coast when Mark lived there, and the amps were hand-built by a custom builder there. It all looks top-notch, with special emphasis on detail.


Mark's "Music reference" 250 watt pentode amplifier

You can tell that this is a commercial offering, built to compete with other high-end production components. I really like Mark's amplifiers, and it inspires me to find a nice amp and preamp like these, to round out my personal collection. I have the best prosound high-current amps, I have a nice clean 100 watt receiver and I have a great little DIY triode amp. But I don't have a commercial tube amp system, and I really love the glowing lights, and the beautiful wood and the brass. And the sound of tubes with some power behind them is enchanting too.


Mark's Class-A tube "Audio Illusions" preamplifier, with stepped resistor attenuators

Even though Mark's system uses separates, he didn't have noticable hum. Honestly, I'm sure a lot of this is due to the loudspeakers, which were probably 86dB/W/M. But he also had a system that needed chassis ground, and Phil's house presented Mark with only two-prong outlets. I think they found some outlets with a ground plug, but I know these Tulsa homes - Phil's home was absolutely beautiful, but some of our historic homes weren't wired with good grounds. So when three-prong outlets are added, they usually are grounded poorly. Usually the conduit is just attached to a water pipe, if even that. So for Mark to not have hum with separates in this situation is pretty cool.

Mark says that he normally uses Magneplanars on this amp, but he uses the little two-way speakers shown above as his right and left channel for home theater. I really liked these little speakers because they look great and they are very small. They reminded me of speakers like the Minimus seven's. And these sounded like some of the better mini-monitors of this type - They are very flat and so they sound realistic, but they just don't get very loud.

They are prefect for a small apartment or dorm room, and you can push 'em with 100 watts and not have any neighbors complain. They'll sound just fine at this level too. But their maximum output is probably 105dB-110dB at a meter or something like that. So you just can't crank 'em. You can, but even at full power, you feel like you still want more.

Next meeting will be held at Mark's house, so we'll be able to see this system in its "native environment." I'll probably take some seven π's if Mark has the room, or the tower two π's if not. We're planning to do this around the end of October sometime, so be sure to come if you can!

Re: Great Plains Audio Club Meeting [message #42389 is a reply to message #42388] Mon, 08 September 2003 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spkrman57
Messages: 522
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Wayne,
Looks like a good time had by all. I am interested in how 250 watts is derived from quad of (Looks like EL34's) per channel. I think you should bring your 10 Pi's to be auditioned on that big amp!
I am trying up here in Ohio to get a small gathering together, my house is so small, hard to fit more than 4 people at one time, so I have had smaller listening sessions. Sounds like a great group of people and a great time was had by all.
Ron
Re: Great Plains Audio Club Meeting [message #42390 is a reply to message #42388] Mon, 08 September 2003 06:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fitz is currently offline  fitz
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Mucho thanks again to Phil and Janet for hosting the event.

Mark

Re: Great Plains Audio Club Meeting [message #42391 is a reply to message #42388] Mon, 08 September 2003 07:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phil Wilson is currently offline  Phil Wilson
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Great write-up Wayne! Glad you got the pictures to work (I just got your emails this morning).

I'm glad everyone had a good time. It was a blast having everyone over and getting to hear everything. Wayne didn't spend much time talking about his system, and I know the folks on this BB know how good his speakers are, but I was really impressed by those little 2 Pi's. I was banging myself in the head when he left because I forgot to hook up my Zen to them (which was the main thing I wanted to do when we got this whole thing started!) and I can't wait to do that. On the Paramour's they were outstanding - wide soundstage, much deeper bass and just a beautiful presentation. I have grown accustomed to the mids and highs on my Fostex's, but I really wasn't missing bass until I heard Wayne's speakers in my house. Now I am.

I didn't even know Pi speakers existed until after I got my Fostex system. My whole philosophy was no crossover, full-range when I was setting up my system and I really love the current implementation, but I am pretty sure that I will build a set of Wayne's speakers sometime soon. If the Zen can drive the 7 Pi's I would love to try those, but I'll probably end up doing one with a "friendlier" load (the Zen cranks out about 1.8 watts). I feel fortunate to have met Wayne and hope to learn more from him about speakers.

Great meeting everyone and can't wait until the next meeting! Phil.

Re: Great Plains Audio Club Meeting [message #42392 is a reply to message #42389] Mon, 08 September 2003 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18791
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I'm not sure about the specs on Mark's amp - That's just want he said.

About your Ohio meeting, it sure is great getting together with you guys. There's a lot of you there and I wish I could come. The Lima event was just really cool, and I hope to make it to the next one.

Re: Great Plains Audio Club Meeting [message #42393 is a reply to message #42392] Mon, 08 September 2003 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
footsurg is currently offline  footsurg
Messages: 21
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
The amp says "250 Watts" in small letters on the top plate and that is the total measured power, but the amp is actually pushing 125 watts per channel in stereo. If you remove the bottom cover of the amp there is a place to insert a specialized metal pin that will bridge the amp into mono. If you do that, then it will push 250 watts into one channel at 8 ohms. There is also a 4 ohm and believe it or not a 2 ohm tap to choose from as well. I hope this clears up any confusion regarding the output of the amp.

Mark

Re: Great Plains Audio Club Meeting [message #42394 is a reply to message #42391] Mon, 08 September 2003 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18791
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

We did hook up your Decware amp to the two π's. Maybe you were busy with the brisket while we were listening, but the first thing we did was to connect the π's up to your amp. Only after that did we hook up the Paramours. Both amps sounded very good, with the differences being mainly that the Paramours were louder. They may have made a little more bass, but it was difficult to tell because it was louder. We could change the volume on your Decware amp but not on the Paramours until we wired in Mark's preamp. Another thing I noticed was that your Decware Select doesn't hum as much. The Paramours make a little bit of hum but your Decware amp was dead quiet.

At any rate, if you didn't get a good listen we'll definitely need to hook 'em up again for you.

Re: Great Plains Audio Club Meeting [message #42395 is a reply to message #42394] Mon, 08 September 2003 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phil Wilson is currently offline  Phil Wilson
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Hilarious, but I forgot about them being hooked up to the Zen. Now that you mention it I remember hooking up the Paramours to the 2 Pi and that the difference in volume made it hard to tell the differences in the amps (other than hum). Seemed like there was more punch in the bottom end with the Paramours, but again that may have been the volume. I definitely did not get much of a listen with the preamp hooked up, and it would have been cool to A/B between the Paramour/Preamp combination and the Zen at similar volume levels. We'll try to make that happen at the next get together! Thanks for being my brain, Wayne!
Re: Great Plains Audio Club Meeting [message #42400 is a reply to message #42388] Mon, 08 September 2003 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Nice setup guys! I wish I didnt live on the other side. We need an audio club in upstate NY. Great pics and description Wayne.

Bill

Upstate, eh? [message #42403 is a reply to message #42400] Tue, 09 September 2003 07:05 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Garland is currently offline  Garland
Messages: 269
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Bill, Where are you located in N.Y.? I visit Schenectady fairly often to visit my Mom. Grew up there, being a G.E. kid.

Garland

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