Cornerhorns, revisited [message #41314] |
Tue, 13 May 2003 00:32 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 18756 Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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Sometimes, people wonder why the π cornerhorn is so simple, and what exactly is its purpose. Some would rather see a complicated labyrinth between the woofer and the corner - This somehow makes them feel better about calling the speaker a "horn." The fact is that the cabinet of a bass cornerhorn is its throat - nothing more. The room itself forms most of the horn's flare. If you want a throat flare other than conical, you can fold it in a box that exits near the corner. Or you can simply use the conical flare that is built-in as the room's boundaries, themselves. Both are good solutions, actually. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. But my focus here today is on the simplest solution, which is to use the apex of a room's corner and its expansion as a large horn. It's the largest horn that can "fit" into a room. The post called "Cornerhorn Answers" discusses the π cornerhorn and there are links within that describe it in more detail. For those of you that own π cornerhorns, I'd like to hear your feedback. Particularly those of you that have owned other brands of cornerhorns as well. I've always been extremely pleased with implementations of this design. I'll admit to having my bias, but I've always felt the π cornerhorn smoked the other cornerhorns I've heard. Particularly in transient response and control, the π
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Re: Cornerhorns, revisited [message #41318 is a reply to message #41314] |
Tue, 13 May 2003 04:43 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Garland
Messages: 269 Registered: May 2009
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Grand Master |
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Hi Wayne, Of course, I'd love to have a pair of your cornerhorns but with my smallish listening room I just don't have the free wall space... maybe a new house is in order...! but anyway, I was wondering about the stability of the walls affecting the quality of sound reproduction with cornerhorns. I recall you warning of performance problems with suspended wood floor joists being too resilient and creating "drum-like" effects. Does the stiffness of walls affect the sound with cornerhorns? Just curious and thanks! Garland
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Re: Cornerhorns, revisited [message #41324 is a reply to message #41314] |
Tue, 13 May 2003 11:38 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
DRC
Messages: 169 Registered: May 2009
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Master |
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As I contemplate taking my midrange driver down 6dB to match the BR-loaded woofer, I must admit I'm think about what a cornerhorn implementation would do for the 1620's efficiency, leaving the 2123 facing forward, as was done in the 18" cornerhorn Bill posted pix of a few weeks or a month back. How many dB would that buy me back? As a SET guy, I find throwing away efficiency painful in the extreme! Keep your ears and your mind open.
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Re: Cornerhorn comparison with direct radiators [message #41332 is a reply to message #41327] |
Tue, 13 May 2003 12:41 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
DRC
Messages: 169 Registered: May 2009
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Master |
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Thanks. You would think I could remember that, eh? Dang, there's the six dB I'm looking for. Would only necessitate new cabs. Arghhh! I've got both going, (the one still driving the woofer FR), and it sounds great. STEREO - what a concept! ;-) The AN M2 preamp sounds fabulous with these speaks, for anyone who cares. Keep your ears and your mind open.
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Re: Cornerhorns, revisited [message #41355 is a reply to message #41318] |
Wed, 14 May 2003 03:36 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 18756 Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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Certainly the configuration of the home and its type and quality of construction are important factors. But no matter what kind of speakers you have, if the acoustics are bad, then you have a problem. I suppose some argument can be made that a highly directional device that's pointed away from problematic areas and reflective surfaces will help. But a home is usually small enough that the reverberent field becomes charged pretty easily, so that removes the validity of the argument to some degree. Beyond that, I've found a few pretty basic things to watch out for. You hit the biggest one - Raised hardwood floors. If a home has a crawlspace underneath, you probably can't make it sound good without some pretty significant treatments. If you can walk across the wood floors and it sounds like a drum head, forget about it. But homes with concrete slabs and framed drywall construction are pretty good, all-in-all. The other gotcha is rooms that are solid rock. Things like basements are problematic, because they are soooo reflective. I've seen this construction in flats in Europe too, and I've been told that rock is everywhere in home construction in India. I expect that a person would need a lot of absorbent material on the boundary surfaces to get that right. I've not had any experience with them other than setting up temporary sound systems in gymnasiums and small stereos in European homes. Neither of these kinds of cases called for a permanent high-quality solution, so I did no real investigation and can't draw reasonable conclusions. But I suspect that wall-to-wall carpets or a thick area rug that extends nearly wall to wall would be helpful, perhaps combined with ceiling treatments as well. Then the dead-end/live-end approach for the walls would probably be appropriate too. But back to the North American homes, if you're not putting your sound system in a basement or in a room with a crawlspace and a raised hardwood floor, you're almost certain to get good results from π cornerhorns, provided you've got the corners, of course.
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Re: Cornerhorns, revisited [message #41363 is a reply to message #41314] |
Wed, 14 May 2003 05:17 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Michaelz
Messages: 25 Registered: May 2009
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Chancellor |
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Hi, Wayne: I have not heard the Pi corner horns or any other corner horn, therefore I cannot comment on their sound. I can only speak from my experience with my 'corner horn' (now with a deflector). ![](http://home.attbi.com/~xozhang/wsb/media/59921/site1041.JPG)
I use them active xo'ed at about 65HZ 4th order. They add a lot of crisp to the mid bass, across the whole room, make cello and bass come to life. For low bass, the sound can be tremendous, it's like a 18 wheel truck next to you, you feel that trembling as well as hear it(I don't understand it when people talk about quick, tight and tuneful low bass, the low bass does not seem to have tunes. Even for the mid bass, how the bass sound sounds depends on the instrument). If this represents in any way what a 'apex' corner horn can do, then I agree with you that it's a great idea. I would like to add two more advantages of corner horns: by their size, their break some standing waves from the corners; their load the room better.
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Questions to Michaelz [message #41375 is a reply to message #41363] |
Wed, 14 May 2003 13:16 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
mollecon
Messages: 203 Registered: May 2009
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Master |
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What driver(s) do you use? What are the dimensions of the box(es)? Are you using reflex or (as it appears) closed box - & do you use any electronic equalisation/compensation?Thx in advance for answers! :-)
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Re: Questions to Michaelz [message #41381 is a reply to message #41375] |
Wed, 14 May 2003 16:48 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Michaelz
Messages: 25 Registered: May 2009
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Chancellor |
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What driver(s) do you use? What are the dimensions of the box(es)? Are you using reflex or (as it appears) closed box - & do you use any electronic equalisation/compensation?It's a square box with one corner cut off. The square sides are 2' long, based on this is the rest of the dimensions . The closed box serves as the back chamber of the horn. The driver is JBL2245. Basically, the volume in the cone of the driver for front chamber, with the corner piece (deflector), the space between the box and the deflector makes for the horn throat. I use Behringer 3400 for active crossover, no equalisation yet. ![](http://home.attbi.com/~xozhang/wsb/media/59921/site1042.JPG)
![](http://home.attbi.com/~xozhang/wsb/media/59921/site1043.JPG)
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