| SET's and 16 ohm JBL 2226J's- - - - - - Observations [message #39121] |
Tue, 19 November 2002 07:55  |
BillEpstein
Messages: 886
Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (2nd Degree) |
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...From my friend Speakerman57 who is unable to post here directly. And I should add that hearing Is believing, I have, and I do! ...have already proved to myself and a few others (who I will add might not
be as forward as me) that the JBL 2226 does work with SET's as long as they
are the 16 ohm version on the 8 ohm tap. At least that has been the case
with 3 different Paramours and 1 Moth audio amp working on my almost 4
pi-pro (3677/2226J/2373). If that is not working right, I guess I want to be
wrong. None of us have experienced a lack of, or weak bass in this
configuration. I would recommend that SET users to connect to their 8 ohm
tap on the amp and try the 16 ohm 2226. We know it worked for us, would
like to hear what the experts have to say. It does go against all the
convention wisdom, but like I say, I prefer to be more of a "backyard
mechanic" than a by the book expert. . I am used to being the rebel, so I
am ready for the criticism everyone will tell me about matching impeadance
with tube amps, and how JBL's are not as well suited for SET's than say
other Eminence and such. I would like the SET users who are willing to defy
conventional wisdom would at least try it out if you can and give me your
feedback. I accept negative criticism also, my feelings won't be hurt.
Opinions wanted from any and all would have something to say here on this. I
am looking forward especially to those who actually try this out. Who knows,
I may be right for all the wrong reasons.
Regards, Ron
Ronald.Semega@cols.disa.mil
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| Re: SET's and 16 ohm JBL 2226J's- - - - - - Observations [message #39141 is a reply to message #39121] |
Wed, 20 November 2002 19:34  |
RBP
Messages: 26
Registered: May 2009
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Chancellor |
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Sorry I have not kept up with you (we have crossed paths in a most positive way) or the bottlehads for a long while (a shame on my part) but you are doing what needs to be done. Subjective lisatening at what sounds proper based on how the music should sound. Perhaps a sliding tap on the transformers are of order where you can dial in the exact value that covers the most compromises? If it were ava. In Mastering enginnering, we do increments and backchecks in the hundreds of a db order at certain frequencies until it fits the gamit that traslates. My hat is off to you for taking the bold approach...afterall their are no absoletes, it all is only relative. Wayne damnit... I did not get to hang with you in the Cutlass. I left NW AR over a year ago..do get up with me dude..we have some conversation to discuss... Bill
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| Re: SET's and 16 ohm JBL 2226J's- - - - - - Observations [message #39144 is a reply to message #39141] |
Thu, 21 November 2002 05:21 |
spkrman57
Messages: 522
Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (1st Degree) |
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Bill,
I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not with your post. Please explain what you are trying to say. I am not engineering degree'd or anything like that, just been doing this for almost 40 years with limited electronics background, mostly with tubes back in the day.
When you talk about sliding taps, are you talking about getting the best transfer to the load device, or are we actually talking about SET's and their transfer to the loudspeaker like I was describing (through TillE's post). I was trying to bring a topic to the masses that has been talked about before.
Wayne, you said that 50 ohms Zmax is the fine line, I can almost agree with you except that with the 2226J's (16 ohm) attached to the SET's configured for the 8 ohm tap, All the participants and myself did not find the quality of the sound lacking like many on the forum and stated in the past.
Here's another kicker, for all you Altec 416 folks: When I tested many of my older models (416A - 16 ohm), values of Qts fell below .1 on several older models that were original, played for many hours with orignal cones/voice coils and had values for Zmax of over 120 ohms, One in particular, I had to measure 3 times to verify for myself because it seemed too high ended up at 177 ohms. These same drivers are part of a Altec A7-500 VOTT system I helped a friend put together. The new owner of these uses them on a set of Paramours, and guess what, I can't find a problem with their sound.
So I guess what I am trying to say, All the forum posters who have problems with high Zmax drivers, I am not getting the same results, I can't believe I am just lucky that way, Like I said previously, the results were derived with 3 separate Paramours and 1 Moth S45 amp (that is one bad-ass amp, I wish I had $2000.00 plus tube price to buy one, my 4 pi-pro's sounded the best they ever did, and on only 1.8 watts per channel provided over 100 db at 6 ft from the speakers). You can ask Mike W. from Columbus who was nice enough to bring his amp and tubes over to my house. Yes 16 ohm JBL 2226J on "8 OHM tap). I don't mean to sound like a broken record, I expected more feedback on this than what I see. Okay, I better quit before someone cuts my bandwidth out. Yes, I am sneaking from work again.
Ron
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| So it's feed back you want! [message #39150 is a reply to message #39144] |
Thu, 21 November 2002 16:53 |
LuxmanLover
Messages: 164
Registered: May 2009
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Master |
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I don't think anyone here is going to "disagree" with your obsevations ....they are what they are, I would say most everyone here is just out to find the "right " combo for their tastes and gear. My observation was that the amp I demoed didn't like the 2226H, there was no debating it, maybe the J model 2226 would have been better, don't know. The bottom end wasn't a little off, it was way off from what even a 75 watt SS amp could produce on that driver, thats not to say that something other than a SE-1 amp couldn't make a better match, but that particular combo was definately not playing nice together. Even switching between SS amps made a difference on my 4Pi pro's, my little D-150a (75 watts) couldn't produce as much "punch" as my 300 watt M-6000 Luxman? And I thought a watt was a watt, ya right. So who cares...just run a big A@@ SS amp, not, to my my ears I gotta get a tuber on the horn.....thats ear candy to me. That tube mid range is to die for. I've got a line on a another little SET amp to demo so I'll definately give you an update on how it goes........
Kelly
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| Re: SET's and 16 ohm JBL 2226J's- - - - - - Observations [message #39173 is a reply to message #39121] |
Fri, 22 November 2002 20:17 |
Mwalsdor@cscc.edu
Messages: 1
Registered: May 2009
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Esquire |
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I was the third cast member for the SET / JBL 2226j combo demo. I visited the day after Till, bringing my Moth s45 SET, a host of output tubes, cables (Silverline Audio) and power cord (Shunyata Sidewinder). We listened to the National-Union ST 45s' first and with this being my first exposure to the JBLs was quite impressed. While different from the presentation with my Silverline Sonatinas (93db / 3-way dynamic) there was also similarities that caught me off guard. Images were not as well defined with the JBL but they were larger, carrying greater weight. There was more of a full-bodied tone with the JBLs but the Sonatinas weren't embarassed either. Tonally, it wasn't a dramatic difference. Of course, there were many variables, outside of just the different speakers, in the two systems. I will say that Ron's room is a good bit smaller than mine and we were in a nearfield arrangement. IMS there is more space, which you'd think wouldn't benefit the leanish Silverlines. We then listened to the RCA 2a3's, the Cunningham cx345 Globe's and then to his Dynaco st-70. We liked the more dynamic and propulsive St 45's best. We also listened to the Altec 811 horn / JBL. I liked the detail with the Altec horn. Bottomline: The demo proved successful and promising, given my associations. While I still preferred my speakers over the sound we observed from the JBL / Altec combo, I'd give the horns a thumbs up! I think Ron was very surprized by the degree the SET impressed, the "rightness" of the 45s, and how the JBL woofer worked with my amp. As he said before the audition, "Altecs drivers work with tube amps and JBL's with SS". In this one demonstration the JBL's mated with my SET amp very nicely - slammin' bass with "in the room presense". YMMV. MikE
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| Re: SET's and 16 ohm JBL 2226J's- - - - - - Observations [message #39177 is a reply to message #39173] |
Sat, 23 November 2002 00:29 |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 18791
Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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JBL's have long been my favorites too. While I usually use 8 ohm "H" versions, the 16 ohm "J" versions are excellent too. Some people have reported marginally less bass from 2226's on low power SET amps, but this isn't the case on all SET amps. Many have said the same as you have - that the JBL's work very well on low power SET's. JBL Professional Series components are definitely favorites of mine.
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