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Active crossover for 4Pi with 2235 Pi sub [message #37585] Wed, 31 July 2002 10:06 Go to next message
LuxmanLover is currently offline  LuxmanLover
Messages: 164
Registered: May 2009
Master
What would be the recommended crossover style nad point for a Professional 4Pi with a 2235 loaded Pi-aligned sub. I was thinking somewhere around 70 Hz with a 18 Db slope. Opinions?
Kelly
Re: Active crossover for 4Pi with 2235 Pi sub [message #37588 is a reply to message #37585] Wed, 31 July 2002 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bmar is currently offline  bmar
Messages: 346
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master

Kelly,

The best crossover point will be some what dependent on your room. For instance I have wood floors and some low frequnecy boosting problems because of theat. when I crossed at 80 with a 4th order, It still gave me too much around 100-150hz. I found the best point for me was higher than that. you will need to tune it in a bit. 80 would be a good place to start if you have carpet.

Bill

I have a.... [message #37589 is a reply to message #37588] Wed, 31 July 2002 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LuxmanLover is currently offline  LuxmanLover
Messages: 164
Registered: May 2009
Master
very solid (masonary walls) slab house with lots of furniture and carpet in the living room. How would you expect that to influence the sound?
Kelly
2235 subs [message #37592 is a reply to message #37589] Wed, 31 July 2002 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18726
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
I usually like to position the subs physically close to the mains, so they sum as a single acoustic source. But in your case, it is important to spread them out.

Your rigid walls make room modes well defined since there is little damping. Each woofer in the room creates standing waves at certain frequencies, and there will be hot spots and dead spots at various places in the room at those frequencies, areas of sound with nulls between them. Some places will boom, some will be dead, some in between.

Framed drywall homes, as are typical in North America, actually do a world of good by damping room modes. The drywall panels vibrate as membranes, absorbing some of the sound and damping the room modes. But basements with concrete walls and rooms with brick or thick plaster walls do not get any damping, so the room modes are strong and well defined. When your sound system is in a room like this, the best thing you can do is to use dense interference to average and smooth the sound field. The way it works is to misalign the standing wave nodes formed by each woofer, using several to fill in the nulls and average out the room distribution.

What I would do would be to run the mains as full range speakers, so their woofers provide bass. Do not crossover your subwoofers to the mains in the usual manner, instead, blend them so all the woofers cover as much of the bass as they're capable of, overlaping each other, at least up to 60-120Hz or so. You can low-pass the subwoofers somewhere below the midrange as usual, but do not high-pass the mains. Let them run as deep as they will go, rolling off naturally at the low end. Then position the subs a few feet away from the mains, ideally where nulls from the mains form.

As you can imagine, this technique works better as the number of bass sound sources increases, so you might want to build a pair of subs (or more) rather than just one. The number of subs used in this manner isn't for adding bass energy or deeper extension, although it can have that effect if you crank the juice to them. The number of subs is used to distribute the sound sources, to smooth the sound field by averaging.

If used outdoors or in a large or well-damped space, I would suggest a large subwoofer cabinet. This allows for high efficiency and deep bass extension. An example is a JBL 2245 in a 10 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 30Hz, a max flat alignment. But in your case, I'd rather have more bass sound sources spread around than one big sub.

In other words, if you can't fit several large boxes, but have to choose between one moster sub or two smaller subs, go for the smaller ones. Even if you have to align them to trade efficiency or extension for size, the benefit from distribution will be worth it. So in your case, I'd probably use a pair of 2235 subwoofer cabinets, each 3.5 to 4.0 cubic feet, tuned to 25Hz. This is a realtively small cabinet with slightly overdamped response making -3dB at 40hz and -10dB at 25Hz. A pair of these carefully placed will sound good, blending with your mains and smoothing the bass in the room.

Re: 2235 subs [message #37599 is a reply to message #37592] Thu, 01 August 2002 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikebake is currently offline  mikebake
Messages: 243
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
I'll finally have my pair of 2245's in 8 cu ft 30 hz boxes in a few weeks. I'm looking forward to bringing these beauties to life........it is a very good motor, yes? If I recall, Wayne, you bought some as well. Haven't used them yet?
2245 subs [message #37606 is a reply to message #37599] Thu, 01 August 2002 13:59 Go to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18726
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Those JBL 2245's are my personal favorites. I've built lots of subs with them and I love 'em.
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