Home » Audio » General » To Wayne Parham regarding time alignment.
To Wayne Parham regarding time alignment. [message #3622] Wed, 30 August 2006 15:52 Go to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Hi Wayne,

A couple of times you mentioned the silliness of time alignment in speakers. Being a novice in such matters could you please explain to me, why time alignment is snake oil? I mean it seems to make sense to me.

Thanks for your time.


It's not for me to say but [message #3625 is a reply to message #3622] Wed, 30 August 2006 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
Messages: 912
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
think about it - 1150 feet per second or so? and the drivers are out of sync by say 6" (to make the numbers simple)?

Then the difference in path length results in one signal arriving 0.5/1150 or 0.4 milliseconds later? Not likely to be noticable even by a bat.

And then you get to the really silly part - on what axis are the voice coils equidistant from your ears? Maybe you have to put some paint cans under the couch legs to make sure you're on axis.

Re: It's not for me to say but [message #3627 is a reply to message #3625] Wed, 30 August 2006 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)

People change blue wire for orange wire. At least there is math behind time alignment!

Re: I think he only wants to hear from Wayne on this. [message #3628 is a reply to message #3627] Wed, 30 August 2006 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
If I read the heading correctly. We had better all quiet down now.

Re: To Wayne Parham regarding time alignment. [message #3630 is a reply to message #3622] Wed, 30 August 2006 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

It's not silly, but it also is impossible. Reactive systems are, by nature, moved in time with respect to resistive systems. The drivers are reactive, the cabinet is reactive and many of the components in the audio stream are reactive. So time alignment is impossible.

What is possible, is near alignment. This is what is important. If you can keep sound sources within 1/4λ of each other, then they'll sum properly and won't exhibit frequency anomalies. This is possible, and it's desirable.

To tell the truth, most good loudspeakers sum true at least on-axis. If they don't, it shows up as a spiked dip in the response curve. But no loudspeakers are actually time aligned through the audio band. Use of the phrase "time aligned" is just sales rhetoric.


Re: It's not for me to say but [message #3633 is a reply to message #3625] Wed, 30 August 2006 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18793
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Bingo. That's part of it. Also think of the phase change in the crossover and in the cabinet, horn, Helmholtz resonator, and so on. There are a lot of places where phase changes and a lot of others where fixed time-offsets occur. You can't correct one with the other 'cause they're not the same thing. A good loudspeaker design comes close, and as long as sound sources are within 1/4λ, it's all good. But to try and get all sound sources aligned at perfect zero phase shift across the audio band is just not possible, not with current technologies using coils and capacitors and motor-driven loudspeakers.


Of course I don't mind if you respond. [message #3639 is a reply to message #3627] Wed, 30 August 2006 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
I just directed my question to Wayne because he had brought the subject up in a couple of threads.

LOL very good. [message #3640 is a reply to message #3625] Wed, 30 August 2006 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Noticeable by a bat! Funny. Good answer too. I now see why it would be silly.

Thanks

See, I'm learning already. Thanks. (NT) [message #3641 is a reply to message #3633] Wed, 30 August 2006 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
NT

Re: Isn't It Funny... [message #3647 is a reply to message #3625] Thu, 31 August 2006 06:25 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
How not one of the respondents has mentioned how the DBT was to be set-up or implemented? And no one has offered a rebuttal from some of the very qualified and serious scientists who refute the argument and who study acoustics and post on this site; such as Earl Geddes and others?


Previous Topic: GPAC Meeting September 9th
Next Topic: Why Not Cut And Paste The Whole Magazine?
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Mon Dec 23 04:12:03 CST 2024

Sponsoring Organizations

DIY Audio Projects
DIY Audio Projects
OddWatt Audio
OddWatt Audio
Pi Speakers
Pi Speakers
Prosound Shootout
Prosound Shootout
Miller Audio
Miller Audio
Tubes For Amps
TubesForAmps.com

Lone Star Audiofest