Home » Audio » General » Can someone help me critique this theory I have been formulating?
Re: Can someone help me critique this theory I have been formulating? [message #3624 is a reply to message #3613] Wed, 30 August 2006 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
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I would suggest analternative way to match levels - I'd put a voltage to an input and monitor the voltage at the output - I'd turn up the volume (or lower the pad) until the same voltage in gave the same voltage out on both preamps.

Re: Can someone help me critique this theory I have been formulating? [message #3626 is a reply to message #3603] Wed, 30 August 2006 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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I think DBT is a fine theory. Its hard to prove to someone that cost, fit and finish don't have an affect on your opinion. After all, what wold the purpose of 'marketing' be if appearance and cost didn't matter?

Blind testing is more difficult for audio since the following consideration must be made. first and foremost, louder is generally perceived as a better sound. I try and make experiments with SPL settings equal, measured at key points in the music. With gear like amps, decks, stages, wires and preamps, mostly sound level is the only concern and its not a tough adjustment. with speakers and cartridges its tougher because I find there is wider gap in efficiency's. buts still not too difficult. Lastly speakers need placement. they cant sit in the same place and be switched speedily. They also may sound their best in a different position. If this is the case then its great since they don't need to be in the same spot as another pair.

Anyway. DBT is great. Do it! the only people who fear it are people who have huge coin in equipment. maybe a vendor or two.

To further your test experiments. you should listen at greater lengths. come back the next day to what you thought was great. listen for a few day, to different formats of music. then switch back. and back again.

Don't forget some people just get tired of the way a system is voiced. then its all changed out and re-tuned. Are you sure its better? or just different, and you like it better now.



Re: Can someone help me critique this theory I have been formulating? [message #3629 is a reply to message #3613] Wed, 30 August 2006 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
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"if you matched the sound of two preamps using your predetermined sine frequency of 1khz. Does that mean that any other frequency you play through the preamps in question would also be matched in volume? Or would the preamps only be matched at that single frequency? "

They would not be matched in volume at all frequencies. That's becuase different components have different frequency curves. Only if the frequency curve were so flat as to have negligible differences would thhey pretty much match.
Interestingly, most decently made solid state amplifiers and preamplifiers do have relatively flat frequency curves, with negligible difference.
Hence they DO sound alike. So your theory there is correct.
That is also what Aczel says, by the way.
It's common sense if you ask me...if two components measure alike, they will sound alike.

-akhilesh



Re: Can someone help me critique this theory I have been formulating? [message #3631 is a reply to message #3615] Wed, 30 August 2006 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
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"I don't agree with him on several issues (eg., tube amps being expensive tone controls.) "

HI Colin,
I agree with you there, Aczel does tend to be allergic to tube amps.
we have to understand that in the early 1990's tube amps were just coming out, and manufacturers were charging HUGE (thousands) dollars for these amps. there was then (surprise!) a lot of snake oil, as there is now too, but now we have a choice, and can get tube amps at a relatively cheapre price of only a few hundred dollars.

However, in one of the older issues, in the letters section, metasonix (he has posted here on ART too, and owns a company that makes guitar amps) tells him that tube amps are not just "tone controls" (non flat frequency curve) but also produce slight amounts of euphonous distortion, and many folsk, like guitar players for example, LOVE this tone of tube amps. Aczel agrees to that in the response to the ltter, and then moves on.

In my opinion, (and I pretty much use SET amps and tube amps in general), tube amps tend to make the music sound better to me.
But I would neve rkid myself that they have higher fidelity than solid state. IN some cases, they may actually "correct" the recording/mastering choices that may make purely reproduced material sound harsh or brittle, and actually make it sound better.

Just my 2 cents.
-akhilesh

Re: What is standard DBT format? [message #3632 is a reply to message #3617] Wed, 30 August 2006 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
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HI Colin,
In most research methodology classes, DBTs are taught.

There is a standard protocol, depending on the area (medicine, social science, etc).

It's really not hard at all to devise a rigorous, scientifically valid DBT test for audio component comparison. Take it from me.

Except it will probably kill most of the high end audio industry.
-akhilesh

Metasonix [message #3634 is a reply to message #3631] Wed, 30 August 2006 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
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HIs name, BTW is Eric Barbour. IN case you were looking for the letter in one of the back issues.
-akhilesh

Re: What is standard DBT format? [message #3635 is a reply to message #3632] Wed, 30 August 2006 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
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I'm somewhat familiar with DBT and think it's a superb idea. I was just wondering what the "standard" was for the audio industry. I take it there is not one.......C

Re: Can someone help me critique this theory I have been formulating? [message #3636 is a reply to message #3631] Wed, 30 August 2006 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
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You're right about the timing. The early '90s was not the era of SETs or more rightly called the S-E-whats?

Intersting to compare and contrast The Audio Critic with Sound Practices, which was published at roughly the same time - complete opposites in just about every respect...C

And I love Sound Practices too [message #3637 is a reply to message #3636] Wed, 30 August 2006 19:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
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They ARE totally opposite. I like Sound Practices a lot also. Great to read about the development of the whole high eff speaker/SET movement. The passion in those pages is infectious. Makes me want to grab a soldering iron and start winding a transformer! Ther eis even a cool haiku by a japanese SET manufacturer, that I printed out.

Thanks for recommending it to me!

-akhilesh


Re: What is standard DBT format? [message #3638 is a reply to message #3635] Wed, 30 August 2006 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
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There sure is not.
But you'll find ample magazine articles and online posts as to why some how DBTs just don't apply in the area of musical appreciation.
-akhilesh

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