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Comparing 4 PI's [message #34159] Thu, 15 November 2001 09:34 Go to next message
Garland is currently offline  Garland
Messages: 269
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
I'm considering the 4 Pi's and was wondering about the sonic differences between the Theater, Stage, Premium and Professional series. My listening room is 14.5'x17.5'x7.5' and fairly cluttered w/ furniture so a small footprint is desirable but I don't want to sacrifice too much dynamics. What are the relative WAF qualities of the different series. Do the Stage, Premium and Pro 4 Pi's at 26" tall need stands? And lastly do these speakers come completely finished, as complete kits, or as plans/parts lists? From what I've read here, these speaker's sound just like what I've been looking for.

Thanks for anyone's opinions and experiences!

Garland

Re: Comparing 4 PI's [message #34161 is a reply to message #34159] Thu, 15 November 2001 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Garland is currently offline  Garland
Messages: 269
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
One other thing: does anyone have photo's posted of these speakers? Thanks!

Garland

premium stage 4 pi's [message #34163 is a reply to message #34159] Thu, 15 November 2001 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
replay is currently offline  replay
Messages: 284
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
enjoy
Re: Comparing 4 PI's [message #34164 is a reply to message #34159] Thu, 15 November 2001 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Colin Fritzke is currently offline  Colin Fritzke
Messages: 41
Registered: May 2009
Baron
I'm just in the process of gathering my parts for a set of Four Pi's and am finalizing the cabinet design. Pi Speakers are available either as complete speakers or just Wayne Parham's designs that he has graciously offered to make available to DIY'ers like us. He can provide assembled crossovers for you if you wish, but otherwise it's up to you to gather all the parts and materials necessary to build these his designs.

I've decided to go with building some Theater Four Pi's, and after considerable discussion with Wayne, my variant will use the Eminence Kappa 15LF driver instead of the Delta 15 because I want smaller cabinets. He says the Theater Four Pi crossover will work just fine with the Kappa 15LF and my wife would much prefer the 3.5 cubic foot cabinet that I can build for the Kappa as opposed to the massive 7+ cubic foot cabinets required for the Delta 15 in the Theater 4 Pi. George (replay) has built the Stage 4 Pi (see his picture in this thread) and it also is a smaller cabinet than the Theatre 4 Pi as built by Till E. (see posts below).

Colin

Re: Comparing 4 PI's [message #34165 is a reply to message #34161] Thu, 15 November 2001 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BillEpstein is currently offline  BillEpstein
Messages: 886
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Here are my Theatre 4's. Stands? No. Barstools, maybe!
Re: Comparing 4 PI's [message #34176 is a reply to message #34164] Fri, 16 November 2001 08:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Garland is currently offline  Garland
Messages: 269
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Colin, Can you reiterate some of the conversations you've had with Wayne comparing the sonic attributes of the theater 4 Pi with the Delta 15 and the one you are building with the Eminence Kappa 15LF. What are the dinensions of the revised cabinet w/the Kappa's? Why didn't you decide to go with the Stages or Pros with their smaller cabinet, if I might ask? I have a need to keep the cabinets as small as possible but don't want to give up too much of the dynamic range that I hear these speakers revel in. Also, what tweeter are you using?

Thanks!

Garland

Re: premium stage 4 pi's [message #34177 is a reply to message #34163] Fri, 16 November 2001 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Garland is currently offline  Garland
Messages: 269
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Replay, can you please give me some of your sonic impressions of the Stages as you have built them? How do they sound compared to the Corner horns (7 Pi?) that I believe you also have. And lastly, what are the dimensions of your Stage cabinets less the top mounted horns? Thanks alot!

Garland

Re: Comparing 4 PI's [message #34179 is a reply to message #34176] Fri, 16 November 2001 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Colin Fritzke is currently offline  Colin Fritzke
Messages: 41
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Garland,

Well... that's allot of questions, but I'll try to explain as briefly as possible. (That's the Kappa 15LFA above, in case you were wondering).

I think I have pretty much the same goals in mind with my speakers as you do... extrememly dynamic sound yet in a package that my wife will allow in our living room. I've read everything I can find in the archives of this forum about people who have built Four Pi's, and they generally LOVE them. I could build the Theatre Three Pi, as it requires a considerably smaller cabinet than the Four and according to Wayne, sounds virtually the same. But I wanted MAXIMUM dynamics, so I really wanted to go with a Four Pi, even though I'll be pushing them with 45W/ch of quality solid state power. Problem is.... I don't have the space for 7 cubic foot cabinets that the Theatre Four Pi's require (see how big Mr. Till E.'s are?). Also, the price for the Omega woofers in the Stage 4 Pi's each cost approximately $130 Canadian more at my local supplier than the Delta 15's do, and the JBL2226's are double that, which would make this project just a bit too expensive for me.

After looking at those options, I analysed a few other drivers in the Eminence line, and it appears the Kappa 15LFA's (see picture above) were the best compromise in terms of price/performance ratio. They require a much smaller box than the Delta 15 (Mine will be just under 4 cubic feet, tuned to 40 Hz) while offering the virtually the same performance of the Omega in the same cabinet volume, only with slightly less power handling ability. I've corresponded with other people who have used the the Kappa15LFA in different projects and have been really successful, so I'm hoping they'll work well in my application. I guess a safer bet might have been to go with a proven design like the Theatre Three Pi (using the Delta 12LFA), but like I said, I wanted maximum dynamic ability. The Kappa 15LFA's are rated like the Delta with response curve similar enough that I'm confident that the Theater Four Pi crossover will work just fine.

The Stage/Pro cabinets are listed as being 26"x18"x14" (I think), which yeild a cabinet volume somewhere around 3 cubic feet. Mine will be a little taller...about 34"x18"x14" for a volume of approximately 3.8 cubic feet (based on internal dimensions). That is about as big of a speaker cabinet as I can get away with in my living room, and I suspect my wife won't object as much to them if I put a nice veneer on them. I should be able to get sufficient bass extension, with a -3dB point around 45 Hz and gradually fading from there. They will be placed in corners, so I'm counting on a little bit of help from the room acoustics for deep bass. Based on Boxplot graphs, the Theater Three Pi will play deeper than my proposed design, but the tradeoff is it isn't quite as efficient.

Tweeter is still going to be the Eminence PSD2002 8-ohm compression tweeter with Eminence H290 horn as called for in the Theatre Four Pi Design.

To summarize, if size is a serious issue, go with the Theater Three Pi's. If you have the budget, go with the Profesisonal four Pi's. If you're like me, on a moderate budget and with size constraints, the Stage four Pi might be best or a modified version like I've done. If size no problem, go with the Theater four Pi's.

Regards,
Colin

Pi Speaker Forum [message #34184 is a reply to message #34179] Fri, 16 November 2001 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
replay is currently offline  replay
Messages: 284
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
hi colin, why not go all the way and use the kilomax drivers? if my distributor still has inventory you could get them for $225.00 cdn each. he's located in toronto.

cheers,

george

garland, here is the review [message #34186 is a reply to message #34177] Fri, 16 November 2001 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
replay is currently offline  replay
Messages: 284
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
hi garland, below is the link to my previous review. my cornerhorns were sold to grant (aka rider), they were just too big. i never got around to fixing the compensation network as i used a different horn on these. i believe the corner horns are the ultimate as the soundstage is immense, but am really impressed with the 4pi's considering their size. good luck.

cheers,

george

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