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Examples of JBL Professional Installations [message #33477 is a reply to message #33474] Tue, 26 June 2001 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18796
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

The link below has a partial list of JBL installations. There are various types of systems and venues shown, from theaters and small clubs to concerts and football stadiums.

Re: Examples of JBL Professional Installations [message #33478 is a reply to message #33477] Tue, 26 June 2001 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pickle is currently offline  pickle
Messages: 24
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
I just read the last couple of posts, and I'd have to say the anti-horn rhetoric at Rat Sound looks like sales blather to me. This debate has been long ago solved. Properly designed horns work fine and have distinct advantages.

My personal experience came on a small scale some years ago; I had music playing outdoors at a small festival through some older JBL horn loaded cabinets (4560BKA) which are fully horn loaded for the woofer at 200Hz and above.

The old literature stated that 4560's were for use in listening distances of 80 feet and beyond. I walked down a street and up a hill where go-kart races were taking place, and was really suprised what kind of presence and volume these two simple cabinets had at about 450-500 feet distance. Much different than a non-horn box at any volume level. I listen to them in my workshop area and the response below 200hz suffers since the horn is only so long.

My 4560's never fail at outdoor parties to impress people, particularly when they realize I'm only running a watt or so average much of the time.........Lucking into these cabinets some years ago is what made me a (very) amateur JBL pro gear fan.

Now, give me reasonably near-field listening and I'm plenty happy with a non-horn woofer arrangement. I've hired a guy for years to do a smaller outdoor festival, 200 feet wide, 400 feet deep, 1000-2000 people, and he uses McCauley cabinets. Not as efficient, obviously, but they are fine.

Again, however, check out what Turbosound or JBL uses for the long-throw situations..........geez, am I wearing this out, or what?

Re: Examples of JBL Professional Installations [message #33479 is a reply to message #33478] Tue, 26 June 2001 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18796
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
I tend to agree with you, they're just putting spin in their sales pitch. Can't see anyone in prosound making a case for direct radiators over horns, not for sound quality or SPL. The only reason I can see using a direct radiator is if a properly sized horn can't be fit into the available space.
Re: Examples of JBL Professional Installations [message #33480 is a reply to message #33479] Tue, 26 June 2001 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikebake is currently offline  mikebake
Messages: 243
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Right-o! So, Wayne, new guy that I am to all this stuff and these forums, what drives you to share all your wisdom so generously with so many different people? I'm sure a lot of people appreciate what you do.

If there is a forum for "people who like using good pro audio stuff at home because it is fun and loud and built like a rock", then we're in luck. Otherwise, Mr. Johnson might as well go to the pro audio forum and start pickin' their brains.........

Still, as an utter neophyte to these forums et al, I have to say that Pi speakers are interesting to me because they seem to promise what I have come to love about pro audio boxes........ efficiency, dynamic range, high SPL capability, heavy duty drivers. I've always said that I would rather hear a big box loafin' than a small box workin' hard.......... think of the irony of those guys who love the really expensive, high tech small speakers, with 5.5-6.5 inch woofs, etc. I understand and appreciate what it is that they like, but keep coming back to "the big sound".

Driving motivation [message #33481 is a reply to message #33480] Wed, 27 June 2001 01:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18796
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
I agree with you. I prefer the effortless dynamic range of a high efficiency speaker, and the low distortion of a driver used at 1/100th the power it was designed to handle.

I design loudspeakers because the choices I would make aren't found anywhere else. The components I use are sometimes value-priced, but more often than not are higher quality parts, occasionally price-no-object. I tend to prefer high efficiency speakers with controlled directivity at a fairly wide radiating angle that isn't very tall. Good on-axis response is important, as is a uniform reverberent field. To make this happen, I pay careful attention to driver spacing and crossover topology. I also like the cabinet to be attractive as furniture. Pi Speakers do well at all of these things; It's important to me that these criteria be met.

I spend a lot of time perfecting the designs, and even though I do it just for my own use, I find it better not to keep the designs to myself. It would be gross underutilization to spend dozens, sometimes hundreds of hours on a design, and to have the loudspeaker only used by one person or a single family. So by publishing the designs and supporting them here on this forum, they benefit others as well. It is very gratifying to see my loudspeakers proliferated across the globe, enjoyed in homes and small businesses everywhere.

Flared mids, not trousers please [message #33489 is a reply to message #33479] Wed, 27 June 2001 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rog is currently offline  Rog
Messages: 5
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Another important reason for horn loading (especially in mid top use) is to control dispersion. The old days (1970's) of 50 horn mid and top boxes shooting in all directions is over. Proper control of dispersion has many benefits. The effects of lobing and comb filtering can be radically brought under control and, the sound can be directed where it is needed, at the audience, not at the walls of a venue where reflections will end up energising the room and making for a less intelligible sound.

The fact that only the audience is targeted means you need less power than a system that scatters everywhere. A football field stadium with an audience of up to 70,000 people expecting up to 125 dB in most positions can be had from an all horn loaded system using around 40,000 watts. I have worked and mixed on non horn loaded systems in these same venues with systems of over 150,000 watts and not got as high an SPL at distance, and a far less intelligible sound. The 150 Kw system with all its amps takes three 32-ton trucks, 18 crew and 2 days to assemble. The 40 Kw system will fit in one 32-ton truck, needs only 6 crew and an afternoon to setup. Need I say more.

Best wishes,

Rog.

Things and stuff [message #33490 is a reply to message #33489] Wed, 27 June 2001 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18796
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Absolutely, agreed 100%.

There are several horn flares that are designed specifically for dispersion control. Most designers are more concerned with directional control than they are with acoustic loading purely for efficiency's sake. That is definitely the current trend, the focus of modern loudspeaker design.

About loudspeaker arrays, when there are multiple point sources - which is what it takes to fill a 70,000 seat stadium - then directivity control and efficiency are your friends. One helps convert electrical power to acoustic power, and the other helps you put it where you want it without comb filtering and other anomalies.

Re: Things and stuff [message #33497 is a reply to message #33490] Thu, 28 June 2001 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikebake is currently offline  mikebake
Messages: 243
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
There are perhaps some more current rigs than these x-arrays, but they seem to hint at what you guys are talking about. I heard them at a LARGE country concert (www.countryconcert.com) and I am NOT a country fan but had a free front row pass..............the system was notable for vocal clarity and great coverage, and was VERY obviously a better performer than previous generations of systems at large outdoor shows. You could tell right off the bat, "now that PA sounds GOOD"........and it wasn't a HUGE stack really, either.......
Re: Things and stuff [message #33500 is a reply to message #33497] Thu, 28 June 2001 16:09 Go to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18796
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Good stuff, thanks for the link!
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